Not with Carol, if STID is any indication. They didn't seem to like each other at all.
If anything, in the Kelvinverse, Carol will be more McCoy's type. Now they had chemistry.
What's in YOUR 'head canon'?
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Not with Carol, if STID is any indication. They didn't seem to like each other at all.
If anything, in the Kelvinverse, Carol will be more McCoy's type. Now they had chemistry.
That's not the impression I got from the final scene.
In my head canon, Joachim is Khan and Marla's son. In fact, I've always wondered if that's what the writers were implying. I've never bothered to work out the time in my head to see if it's possible, though. What I think is undisputible is that, in a movie about father/son relationships, Khan is a father figure to Joachim, but that doesn't have to make him a literal father. Scotty and his nephew certainly contribute to the father/son relationships theme.
IIRC, Joachim is Khan's adopted son. His biological parents were Joaquin and Ling (who both appeared in "Space Seed").
If I recall correctly, wasn't there a mention of Chekov and Terrell seeing a child among Khan's people in the novelization of The Wrath of Khan?
Yes
What's the source for this (I don't know what "IIRC" means)?
IIRC = "if I recall correctly"
I remember a still of a scene that was filmed of Khan in the Reliant's transporter room, the genesis torpedo was on the pad, and a baby was crawling towards Khan.
According to this version of the script:
8 ANGLE - THEIR POV 18
A RUINED SERIES OF MAN-MADE STRUCTURES, half buried in
sand. They look at each other in consternation. Chekov
is worried; something about all this is familiar.
They descend towards the structures, now seen to be the
wreckage of some sort of space craft.
They pass but do not notice the FEDERATION LOGO, half
buried next to their feet.
TERRELL
They look like cargo carriers...
As Chekov looks at the porthole, a face suddenly looks
back! It is the face of a CHILD! The Apparition
scares the daylights out of Chekov -- and us. He
screams.
TERRELL
(continuing)
What is it?
He comes clumsily over --
CHEKOV
A face! I saw -- it was like a
child --
He points. The porthole is empty.
And:
ABRUPTLY A SOUND -- They start: CHILD'S GURGLE.
CHEKOV
(terrified)
I told you! I told you I saw a --
TERRELL
Ssssh!
They start looking. They enter a new chamber --
20 KHAN'S QUARTERS 20
On its side in the sand: the walls are now the floor,
etc. All in crookedness -- like its owner. On the
floor, smiling at them (i.e., the wall) is a BABY.
And when Khan arms the Genesis torpedo:
213A INT. RELIANT TRANSPORTER ROOM 213A
There sits the Genesis torpedo: lights start blinking
in response. As we watch, the CHILD we met on Ceti Alpha
walks to the torpedo and smiles at the lights.
214 INT. ENTERPRISE BRIDGE 214
http://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/twok.txt
So scenes with the child/baby were scripted. I don't know if they were filmed, but they don't seem to be in any edition of the movie.
KHAN: You are in a position to demand nothing, sir. I, on the other hand, am in a position to grant ...nothing. What you see is all that remains of the ship's company and crew of the Botany Bay, marooned here fifteen years ago by Captain James T. Kirk.
KIRK: There's a man out there I haven't seen in fifteen years who's trying to kill me. You show me a son that'd be happy to help him. My son. ...My life that could have been, ...and wasn't. And what am I feeling? ...Old. ...Worn out.
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie2.html
So WOK should be 15 years after Kirk left Khan on Ceti Alpha V. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier should happen just a few months later in fictional time and thus about 15 years after Kirk left Khan on Ceti Alpha V. But in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier Caitlin Dar, Romulan representative to Nimbus III, a planet settled by people from the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Empire said:
CAITHLIN: Twenty years ago, our three governments agreed to develop this planet together. A new age was born.
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie5.html
But in "Balance of Terror", a first season episode like "Space Seed", nobody in the Federation knew what Romulans looked like. Once Nimbus III was settled people would learn from the Romulan subjects settling their what Romulans looked like, So "Balance of Terror"should be at least 20 years before Star Trek V: the Final Frontier but also in the same season as "Space Seed" which is 15 years before WOK which should be only a few months before Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Most of Khan's supermen and superwomen in WOK look too old to have been born on Ceti Alpha V in the last 15 or 20 years - unless they grow very fast - and too young to have been the supermen and superwomen seen in "Space Seed" - unless they age very slowly - and so may have been superchildren when aboard the Botany Bay.
But in "Space Seed":
KIRK: How many alive?
SCOTT [OC]: Twelve units have malfunctioned, leaving seventy two still operating. Thirty of those are women.
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/24.htm
I always assumed that Scott meant there were 72 adults, 42 men and 30 women and no children aboard the Botany Bay. But just now I thought that possibly Scott meant there were 25 men, 17 boys, and 30 women, for example. Or maybe 42 males and 30 females with about 50 adults and 22 children. Or something like that.
Mark Tobin as Joaquin in "Space Seed" was about 30 to 40 and Joaquin would have been about 45 to 60 in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Judson Scott as Joachim was about 30 when filming Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, so Joachim should have been about 10 to 15 in "Space Seed". But maybe supermen grow up very fast or else age very slowly once they grow up.
So it is easy to say that Joachim in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was like a son to Khan but hard to say how old he was or who his biological parents were.
Perhaps Caithlin meant Romulan years, not all planets would have a Gregorian 12 months is a year calendar
You should realize that both dates for the Eugenics Wars are correct. It seems obvious to me that several different Earth calendars are used to give Earth dates in Star Trek productions. Thus the Eugenics Wars or the Third World War happens about 1993-1996 in the "Space Seed" calendar and about 2053 in the First Contact calendar. And probably in some third date in our Gregorian calendar.
I don't think dates matter. Its best to treat the Prime world as not our future but the future of another reality that had similar histories up to 1963 lol
This kind of inevitable inconsistency in a franchise with so many different writers over so many years is the reason why, in my head canon, I tend to ignore specific dates and time spans mentioned in the stories and just mentally imagine what seems to me a reasonable amount of time to make everything fit together. So I'm sticking with the idea that Joaquin is Khan and Marla's kid, especially because teenagers have often been played by thirty-year old actors in the history of film and television. Certainly, it makes as much sense to imagine some thirty-year old playing a fifteen-year old Joaquin as it does to accept Ricardo Montalban and Benedict Cummerbund playing the same character.
MY head canon says there were two wars. We just don't like to talk about the other one.
(the future is dark indeed)
I've seen photos of the baby in the transporter room with the genesis device here on TrekBBS, they were definitely filmed.
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