You're gonna make me rewatch this piece of crap again, aren't you?
What you did or didn't like about GEN...
- Thread starter Joel_Kirk
- Start date
You're gonna make me rewatch this piece of crap again, aren't you?
I'm not making you do anything.
One contemporaneous review said it was like "WKRP in Cincinnati: The Movie". What was the point?
Liked:
-Kirk's first 'death', though in retrospect it didn't make sense that he would be the one to change out the isolinear chips. Though I thought the scene was well done, and Scott's mournful "Aye" made me choke up.
-Seeing the Ent-D on the big screen
-Seeing the DS9 suits in the film. I always liked those suits
-The destruction of the E-D; I thought it was pretty harrowing the first time I saw it
-Data and the emotion chip
-Kirk and Picard's meeting
-Soran's line "Time is the fire in which we burn"
-Picard and Riker's final lines at the end of the movie
-The FX for the most part were pretty good
Disliked:
-Use of the Duras sisters. I always liked them and thought they were made into throwaway villains. I thought they would've fit better on DS9. (I know they were on DS9 once before, but they were wasted in that episode). They were good, scheming political adversaries that could've been put to better use on that show. It would've been awesome to see them conspire with the Dominion, but oh well. Personally I would've loved to see the Ferengi be Soran's allies. For one, the D'Kora class ships are awesome and deserved to get a shot on the big screen. Plus, I think it would've been a nice nod to TNG's attempt to make the Ferengi a credible threat early on. Though the Ferengi were made comic relief that didn't mean they were totally defanged. DaiMon Bok was certainly no buffoon.
-Use of stock footage for the destruction of the Duras ship
-Soran and Picard's first interaction on Veridian III; very talky and boring
-Picard getting punked out by Soran in their fight; I think that fight had a bad effect on future films because the writers, and perhaps Stewart, seemed determined to make Picard more badass after he got handled in GEN
-Nexus. How does it work again? And why didn't anyone pick up this ribbon cutting through space the first or second time, or not have some counter to it?
-Not having Crusher be Picard's wife in the Nexus. I thought that would've been cool.
-Kirk's first 'death', though in retrospect it didn't make sense that he would be the one to change out the isolinear chips. Though I thought the scene was well done, and Scott's mournful "Aye" made me choke up.
-Seeing the Ent-D on the big screen
-Seeing the DS9 suits in the film. I always liked those suits
-The destruction of the E-D; I thought it was pretty harrowing the first time I saw it
-Data and the emotion chip
-Kirk and Picard's meeting
-Soran's line "Time is the fire in which we burn"
-Picard and Riker's final lines at the end of the movie
-The FX for the most part were pretty good
Disliked:
-Use of the Duras sisters. I always liked them and thought they were made into throwaway villains. I thought they would've fit better on DS9. (I know they were on DS9 once before, but they were wasted in that episode). They were good, scheming political adversaries that could've been put to better use on that show. It would've been awesome to see them conspire with the Dominion, but oh well. Personally I would've loved to see the Ferengi be Soran's allies. For one, the D'Kora class ships are awesome and deserved to get a shot on the big screen. Plus, I think it would've been a nice nod to TNG's attempt to make the Ferengi a credible threat early on. Though the Ferengi were made comic relief that didn't mean they were totally defanged. DaiMon Bok was certainly no buffoon.
-Use of stock footage for the destruction of the Duras ship
-Soran and Picard's first interaction on Veridian III; very talky and boring
-Picard getting punked out by Soran in their fight; I think that fight had a bad effect on future films because the writers, and perhaps Stewart, seemed determined to make Picard more badass after he got handled in GEN
-Nexus. How does it work again? And why didn't anyone pick up this ribbon cutting through space the first or second time, or not have some counter to it?
-Not having Crusher be Picard's wife in the Nexus. I thought that would've been cool.
Moore and Braga set up Kirk and Picard's stories, then don't follow through with the obvious story choices. The set up for Kirk is that he can't stand retirement and what he wants more than anything is to get back in the big chair and make a difference again. Then he goes into the Nexus and gets his greatest wish -- which now seems to be a quiet retirement in the country. Huh? Did Moore and Braga bother reading their own script?
The set-up for Picard is that he's feeling his age and starting to wish he'd taken a different path in his life. Once he gets into the Nexus and finds his "family," Kirk, the one who supposedly wants to get back into action as a Starfleet captain, should have been the one convincing Picard to go back, not the other way around. It's like the writers were determined to set things up, then go 180 degrees in the opposite direction of where they should have gone in each case.
The set-up for Picard is that he's feeling his age and starting to wish he'd taken a different path in his life. Once he gets into the Nexus and finds his "family," Kirk, the one who supposedly wants to get back into action as a Starfleet captain, should have been the one convincing Picard to go back, not the other way around. It's like the writers were determined to set things up, then go 180 degrees in the opposite direction of where they should have gone in each case.
That's not a bad idea, but there lies a problem. If Picard needed convincing to leave the Nexus, why would Kirk do it? Why would Kirk care? Kirk wouldn't know Picard. If Kirk wanted to leave, he could.
Plus, I think that would some what character assassinate Picard a bit. "Hooray, I have a family. Screw everything else." Picard always seemed to place everything else before his own needs. This would be contradictory if Picard needed convincing by someone else to leave his fantasy.
Broccoli you also make some good points. However, GEN had already established that Picard was emotionally devastated by the loss of his family and the realization that there might be no more Picards. If he got that in the Nexus, and if the writers had made Crusher his wife (giving the TNG fans a sop, and perhaps making his actions a bit more tolerable), I could see Picard wanting to stay there, not wanting to face reality. Whereas, then it could be a situation where Guinan's echo tries to convince him. When she fails, she turns to Kirk, who does convince him. It puts Picard back in the center seat, and it would be Kirk passing the torch by trying to convince Picard how much he is needed to stop Shinzon, instead of the other way around.
Looking back, it doesn't make much sense that Kirk is so reluctant (though I can see how he might have come to regret not starting a family) and then eventually gives Picard the speech about not letting them promote him, whereas his recent actions sort of undermined that statement.
Looking back, it doesn't make much sense that Kirk is so reluctant (though I can see how he might have come to regret not starting a family) and then eventually gives Picard the speech about not letting them promote him, whereas his recent actions sort of undermined that statement.
The truly stupid part is when Picard is presented with the opportunity go back TO ANY POINT IN TIME and then presents Kirk with the exact same opportunity, THEY PICK THE ABSOLUTELY WORST POINT IN THE ENTIRE CHAIN OF EVENTS TO GO BACK TO!!!
Way back when, I wrote up an alternate ending, where Kirk goes back to the Enterprise-B and gets Soran to do the recalibration of the deflector dish, so HE gets sucked into the Nexus instead. End of crisis before it ever begins. Meanwhile, Picard goes back a few days, warns his brother Robert about the faulty heating unit, and saves his family, and the Enterprise-D in the process.
The only downside being that it effectively undid the Shatner novels, but that's a small price to pay.
Way back when, I wrote up an alternate ending, where Kirk goes back to the Enterprise-B and gets Soran to do the recalibration of the deflector dish, so HE gets sucked into the Nexus instead. End of crisis before it ever begins. Meanwhile, Picard goes back a few days, warns his brother Robert about the faulty heating unit, and saves his family, and the Enterprise-D in the process.
The only downside being that it effectively undid the Shatner novels, but that's a small price to pay.
For the commentary, it's worth it. Moore and Braga probably hate the movie as much as you do, and they wrote it!
Shinzon in Generations?! I've entered the Bizarro World!
It is a good commentary. First Contact has a good one too by them.
I don't like gagh anyway, so there!And no supper either!!!!!
Shinzon in Generations?! I've entered the Bizarro World!
It is a good commentary. First Contact has a good one too by them.
The only way I can watch that waste of celluloid is with the commentary. Only got it for the tribute to Matt Jefferies.
Shinzon in Generations?! I've entered the Bizarro World!
Even though I'm the resident defender of "Nemesis" in this forum, I certainly don't think that 10 year old Shinzon was the villain in "Generations".
I like this movie overall but it doesn't really have much to say. So Soran is an obsessive, I think we can all agree that is bad. The TOS movies tended to make a better effort at being thought provoking or to having some relevance to the politics of the time. I think this is a fault of the writing, and that in general all of the TNG films were not written as well as they might have been, largely due to studio interference I imagine.
I DO like this film though, as a popcorn flic. It's fun to see the TNG cast on the big screen, and Soran is written well enough as a believable villain.
I DO like this film though, as a popcorn flic. It's fun to see the TNG cast on the big screen, and Soran is written well enough as a believable villain.
It is puzzling that Kirk's idea of joy in the Nexus is living with some woman we've never heard of.
I always thought it would have been cool if Kirk had been on the bridge of the Enterpise, in battle or something when Picard comes to get him. It would have been another chance to see the TOS crew again (aside from just the opening 15 minutes), and give Nimoy something more to do. They could have had Spock (the Nexus version) convince Kirk to go with Picard...
I always thought it would have been cool if Kirk had been on the bridge of the Enterpise, in battle or something when Picard comes to get him. It would have been another chance to see the TOS crew again (aside from just the opening 15 minutes), and give Nimoy something more to do. They could have had Spock (the Nexus version) convince Kirk to go with Picard...
Shinzon in Generations?! I've entered the Bizarro World!
Even though I'm the resident defender of "Nemesis" in this forum, I certainly don't think that 10 year old Shinzon was the villain in "Generations".
I meant Soran.
J
Jetfire
Guest
I like it all except for some of LeVar Burton & Brent Spiner's acting was off a bit...like the movie was directed by Michael Bay.
By the way My fav TNG actors are LB & BS.
By the way My fav TNG actors are LB & BS.
Spiner's acting was horrible. Why does he think he is a comedian?? He is NOT FUNNY!! Throughout the whole series I could see that influence. Anytime he had a chance to play someone other than Data, he turned into a guy with comical facial expessions, like a clown.
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