What would the Dominion had gained, had they won the war?
- Thread starter Photon
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The Founders seemed to have a core belief that solids would never stop persecuting and trying to destroy them, so they thought subjugating them was the only answer, wherever in the galaxy they were at. They talked about order all the time, but it seemed to be more about control because of that fear.
Death.
It was only through surrendering that the cure to the sickness that Section 31 infected the Founders with was provided to more than the female Founder.
The Founders could have just focused on how to collapse the wormhole permanently. However, their xenophobic tendencies seemed to run away with them when they encountered the multitude of races in the AC. They were obsessed with impressing their brand of order and control on anyone not like them. I’d think they saw the AC as a problem they could deal with now, or one they felt they’d have to deal with later. They chose now, to their detriment.
At least, that's their official story, their "excuse". It could also be true they long ago lost that actual fear, knowing they already have a mighty empire that does their bidding, and now simply are a bunch of jerks who want to control the entire galaxy for the sake of controlling it.
Waiting would probably not have improved chances for the Dominion. The Federation seems to be advancing faster (in technology). Waiting for another 100 years might have lost (or diminished) the Dominion the headstart they still had in the 24th century.
I felt like Odo, for whatever his background, was a nicer version of the Founders' natural evolution.
Which is to say his race is obsessed with order like a biological OCD.
Which is to say his race is obsessed with order like a biological OCD.
The Founders seemed like they really resented the Solids general widespread and common place throughout the Delta Quadrant so they were seeking security against domination by Solids. Once they understood the wormhole was stable and led to the Alpha Quadrant with many Solid societies the Founders insecurity and fear of persecution by Solids was renewed.
There's a throwaway line in the the "Disavowed" novel that speculates that he might have crossed over from the Mirror Universe when he originally came through the wormhole from the Gamma Quadrant.
The Founders had a reason to not trust the solids since the Cardassians and Romulans allied to try to kill them. But that was after they drew first blood against the Alpha Quadrant by destroying The Odyssey.
The Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar were correctly concerned that the Founders were dangerous and needed to be destroyed. Section 31 topped them by poisoning that bowl of slime. Thankfully for them, they had a younger and more evolved Founder that spent his whole life with solids (and fell in love with one) in Odo who saved them.
I never understood how or why the Founders were so revered by the Vorta and Jem'hadar. How did they even get the technology to make themselves into God-like figures to control them if they were all in the great link?
Sorry, I'm a little drunk and I still have a great disdain for that entire race, aside from Odo. The Vorta are conniving scum, the Jem'hadar are brainwashed, drug-addicted soldiers but at least they are interesting races.
The Changelings are smug, arrogant cowards and Sloan was right to try to wipe them out completely. The Dominion would have been completely destroyed (after the Jem'hadar all killed themselves) had he succeeded.
The Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar were correctly concerned that the Founders were dangerous and needed to be destroyed. Section 31 topped them by poisoning that bowl of slime. Thankfully for them, they had a younger and more evolved Founder that spent his whole life with solids (and fell in love with one) in Odo who saved them.
I never understood how or why the Founders were so revered by the Vorta and Jem'hadar. How did they even get the technology to make themselves into God-like figures to control them if they were all in the great link?
Sorry, I'm a little drunk and I still have a great disdain for that entire race, aside from Odo. The Vorta are conniving scum, the Jem'hadar are brainwashed, drug-addicted soldiers but at least they are interesting races.
The Changelings are smug, arrogant cowards and Sloan was right to try to wipe them out completely. The Dominion would have been completely destroyed (after the Jem'hadar all killed themselves) had he succeeded.
We don't really know how much of that attempt was instigated and setup by Changeling infiltrators in the first place. But at the very least this history proves that both the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order could be easily "stimulated" to try to do something just like that, which made them dangerous to the Dominion.
If what they tell us is true, they have a long history. From DS9's Behind the Lines:
Before that "evolution" there wouldn't presumably have been such a thing as the Great Link, so that would probably have been the era during which they developed their technological base - sufficient to go to the stars, though not necessarily to their current technological level. Once they "evolved" (which could have been artificial) other races apparently started fearing them, and ultimately the Dominion was born. In the Dominion they probably have other races doing their tech and science stuff for them (such as the Vorta).
And on the other side, this great link might also have its advantages for scientific progress. Imagine two brilliant changeling scientists (in slightly different fields) swapping all their (even intuitive) insights and knowledge far more efficiently than any two Solids could, while being in that great Link ...
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You make some excellent points. I appreciate you giving me a refresher and a little perspective.
It must have hurt their ego a bit to have a race tens of thousands of years their junior be able to poison them to the brink of destruction.
Humans are inventing the wheel, while the Founders are controlling the Gamma Quadrant. 6,000 years later, humanity had the power to destroy them.
Ugh, I hope Odo’s not from MU. It trivializes moral decisions when they establish “Everyone with different morals than their race is MU”. Wish they never went there in Disco.
The better explanation I think is that Odo just didn’t have the same negative experience with solids as the Founders. Even the Cardassians who saw him as a dancing bear gave him a job he enjoyed. Then of course his connection with Kira.
The better explanation I think is that Odo just didn’t have the same negative experience with solids as the Founders. Even the Cardassians who saw him as a dancing bear gave him a job he enjoyed. Then of course his connection with Kira.
I'm pretty sure that MU Odo (who was a tyrannical dickhead) was blown to soup by Bashir.
eventually the Dominion would have caught the attention of the real heavy-hitters in the galaxy that seem to like things more or less the way they are. They already got a fleet of ships destroyed in the wormhole by the Prophets. It is safe to assume those might have been the first Godlike Beings the changelings encountered. The Alpha and Beta Quadrants are choc full of em.
Seeing motivated Organians halt hostilities or a bored Q turn half the founders into chicken soup might have caused the Vorta to overcome their genetic worshipfulness. Their credulity was already getting pretty strained. Without the Vorta devotion, the system falls apart.
Seeing motivated Organians halt hostilities or a bored Q turn half the founders into chicken soup might have caused the Vorta to overcome their genetic worshipfulness. Their credulity was already getting pretty strained. Without the Vorta devotion, the system falls apart.
Q putting the Founders into a "Penalty Box" for 10,000 years or so would have been satisfactory to me. Then again, him completely destroying the Liquid Nazis would have been even more satisfying.
The Star Trek: Section 31 novel 'Disavowed' had an interesting take on this. Bashir finds himself in the mirror universe and ends up encountering the Dominion who are much more tolerant and peaceful than their prime universe counterparts. Bashir gets put on trial for killing Odo but the trial is fair and just and he ends up being released. The Female Changeling emphasises how justice is important within the mirror dominion and that no one not even founders are above the law. This leads Bashir to wonder if the Odo of the prime universe was actually from the mirror universe considering his sense of justice.
Also Odo did have some very negative experiences as evidenced by his sour relationship with Dr. Mora but he didn't have the combined history of the great link in his head influencing his decisions. The problem with the Founders was that while they could physically change at will, their minds were inflexible, rigid and fixed. The couldn't adapt to the idea that solids aren't all bad even after everything Odo showed them.
It's weird though. Significant chunks of both the Gamma (Dominion) and Delta (Borg) quadrants have probably been "brought under control" , yet no indication of any godlike being taking action -- only when they crossed the wormhole into the AQ (and Sisko had to plead for that). Does the Alpha Quadrant have a special place in the heart of godlike beings, and don't they care about these other quadrants? (Oh, and by 'godlike beings' , I'm not referring to the writers).
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To me that would ruin Odo as much as being from the MU ruined Lorca.
It completely explains away his personal moral choices as being something forced on him by his origin.
It completely explains away his personal moral choices as being something forced on him by his origin.
Earth, Q'onos and Romulus would have been wiped out. Earth and Romulus would have gotten the Teplan blight and Q'onos would have obliterated by orbital bombardment. Vulcan, Tellar and Andor are spared. Reeducation camps would have been set up and along with population control measures after a few generations no one would remember anything except being Dominion subjects. Klingons would be farmed out like Tosk to Dominion members. The Ferengi and other noncombatants like the Tholians join the Dominion willingly. The remaining Romulans and Humans take their places as worthwhile Dominion members The Alpha Quadrant enjoys everlasting peace.
^Just curious: why would Romulus, Earth, and Q'onos be eradicated in particular, and not the other home worlds of founding Federation species? Because these are the de facto "leaders" of their respective "empires", the primary war makers? And of these three, why would Q'onos end up with the least sadistic treatment?
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