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Dominion occupation of Earth - how much resistance/compliance there would have been?

evilchumlee said:
The only reason I doubt this is because it was never advertised. If the Dominion wanted to make an example, they did a bad job because nobody knew the Dominion did anything.

Earth is a tough one though. The fact that is the center of the Federation makes me the think the Dominion would rather try to take it relatively peacefully, to show the rest of the Federation "see, we aren't as bad as you thought!"

If they just... eradicate Earth, the rest of the Federation will never stop fighting them. If they can get Earth to capitulate and accept being a Dominion vassal... that will go a long way in bringing the rest of the Federation in line.

Pull the Dukat, don't just defeat Earth, make them realize they were wrong for opposing you in the first place.
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Fair point about "BATTLE LINES", though it was produced about halfway through season 1... the Dominion wasn't even a concept at that point. (The first mention of them was in season 2's "RULES OF ACQUISITION".) I only thought of that because it was so early in DS9's life.

Regarding Earth, you make good points. However, the only voice that would matter is the Founders' voice, not Weyoun's and certainly not Dukat's, and given that the Federation already resisted by going to war with them and the disease they were infected with, I don't see them taking a velvet glove approach with the planet.

The only reason the Dominion honored their non-aggression pacts with Bajor, the Tholians, and the Miradorn was because they were made before the war. Since none of them fought in the war, they were left alone. (Bajor is a tough one, though, as they could have seen them allowing the Federation to stay on DS9 as Bajor going against that pact.)
 
Farscape One said:
Regarding Earth, you make good points. However, the only voice that would matter is the Founders' voice, not Weyoun's and certainly not Dukat's, and given that the Federation already resisted by going to war with them and the disease they were infected with, I don't see them taking a velvet glove approach with the planet.

The only reason the Dominion honored their non-aggression pacts with Bajor, the Tholians, and the Miradorn was because they were made before the war. Since none of them fought in the war, they were left alone. (Bajor is a tough one, though, as they could have seen them allowing the Federation to stay on DS9 as Bajor going against that pact.)
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That's true, at the end of the day, it's 100% whatever the Founders want. They don't actually care about treaties or anything like that, they do what they this is best for them.

In the end, it's all about safeguarding the Founders. They want to best, most efficient way to ensure their safety from solids. Yes, the Federation... Earth... has already done damage to them. I think it ends up just being more how the Founders weigh the possibilities... is it better to glass Earth, and then spend the next however long mopping up the rest of the Federation in a protracted insurgency, or is it better to try to "play nice" and take the more hands off approach with more pinpoint strikes and rather than fighting a massive insurgency war, attempting to prevent one in the first place.

Going to the human nature side... we do tend to want to fight occupiers, but at the same point, we ARE also quick to sell out our brother for personal safety. If the Dominion can swoop in and get enough collaborators to weed out the insurgents... it may well be the way to go.
 
Farscape One said:
Bajor is a tough one, though, as they could have seen them allowing the Federation to stay on DS9 as Bajor going against that pact.
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Kira, on behalf of the Bajoran government, demanded the Federation to leave, but Sisko ignored it (technically becoming an occupier). Since Bajor obviously could not do anything to force the Federation to leave, they have not broken the pact.

However, Kira and Rom's actions during the season 6's first arc, in fact, could have been seen by the Dominion as a violation of the pact and thus could have brought war to Bajor (as well as Odo's order to the security force to open fire on the Jem'Hadar). That's why I see Kira's actions in that arc as very wrong - being a Bajoran officer and acting on behalf of the Bajoran government, she de facto works for the Federation (to which she bears no obligations) in the way that can end up disastrously for Bajor.
 
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Reymet_2 said:
Kira, on behalf of the Bajoran government, demanded the Federation to leave, but Sisko ignored it (technically becoming an occupier). Since Bajor obviously could not do anything to force the Federation to leave, they have not broken the pact.

However, Kira and Rom's actions during the season 6's first arc, in fact, could have been seen by the Dominion as a violation of the pact and thus could have brought war to Bajor (as well as Odo's order to the security force to open fire on the Jem'Hadar). That's why I see Kira's actions in that arc as very wrong - being a Bajoran officer and acting on behalf of the Bajoran government, she de facto works for the Federation (to which she bears no obligations) in the way that can end up disastrously for Bajor.
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I was actually thinking more about the return to DS9 at the end of "SACRIFICE OF ANGELS" and onward.

Bajor could have told the Federation no, since DS9 was their property.

Obviously, they preferred the Federation over the Dominion and Sisko over... well, pretty much anybody. But it was something to consider regarding the political side of that scenario.
 
I thought it was odd that they never showed the Dominion taking any particular revenge against the Romulans. The Romulans were full participants in the attempted genocide of the Founders. The Dominion didn't get quite all the Cardassians, but they had a good try and killed lots of them and destroyed most of the cities. Yet the Dominion made a treaty with the Romulans and honored it.
 
Hm. Given the Founders are shapeshifters, I wonder whether they'd conquer Earth in the same way the Cardassians essentially conquered Bajor in the first Terok Nor book: rather than arriving in force, just use Founders to subvert the government and make it more Dominion-friendly until Earth appeared to join the Dominion of its own accord, perhaps by seceding from the Federation (as would happen later).
 
kkt said:
I thought it was odd that they never showed the Dominion taking any particular revenge against the Romulans. The Romulans were full participants in the attempted genocide of the Founders. The Dominion didn't get quite all the Cardassians, but they had a good try and killed lots of them and destroyed most of the cities. Yet the Dominion made a treaty with the Romulans and honored it.
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Makes you wonder more about the Romulan star going nova, huh?
;)
 
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kkt said:
I thought it was odd that they never showed the Dominion taking any particular revenge against the Romulans. The Romulans were full participants in the attempted genocide of the Founders. The Dominion didn't get quite all the Cardassians, but they had a good try and killed lots of them and destroyed most of the cities. Yet the Dominion made a treaty with the Romulans and honored it.
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The thing is, they didn't even go after the Cardassians until Damar's insurgency.

I don't think the Founders are all that vengeful (Vadic excluded). Had the Cardassians fell in line, that may not have happened at all.

On the flip, if the Founders WERE vengeful like that... they may have wanted to do the same with the Romulans, but never got the chance. It was probably on the "to do" list, but they didn't want to come through the wormhole and fight EVERYONE at the same time.
 
I rather think the Dominion's alliance with the Cardassians was the start of their revenge against them and that once the Federation was dealt with the Cardassians would be taken care of.

Indeed, Damar's insurgency started in part because the Dominion was already sidelining the Cardassians in favor of the Breen.
 
DonIago said:
Indeed, Damar's insurgency started in part because the Dominion was already sidelining the Cardassians in favor of the Breen.
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Although that was mostly done because the Cardassians were being a bit uppity and not really wanting to do what the Dominion was telling them to do.
 
The episode the Quickening would have been Earth's fate, or something similar. Heavily implied that's what would have happened. Losing was not an option.
 
BillJ said:
When the Borg was coming in the novels, they all just sat around and waited for the end.
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When literally thousands of cube ships are smashing everything in their path to space dust, there's not else to do.

One cube ship wrecked the Starfleet armada at Wolf 359 without breaking a sweat. Now imagine a Borg zerg rush, and keep in mind that they're not stopping to assimilate and stated up-front they intend to leave no traces behind... if that's not literally the apocalypse, then I don't know what is.
 
Sigma101 said:
The episode the Quickening would have been Earth's fate, or something similar. Heavily implied that's what would have happened. Losing was not an option.
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From "Sacrifice of Angels":

WEYOUN: If you ask me, the key to holding the Federation is Earth. If there's going to be an organised resistance against us, its birthplace will be there.
DUKAT: You could be right.
WEYOUN: Then our first step is be to eradicate its population. It's the only way.
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If we suppose that Starfleet knows they're about to lose, and prepares multiple contingencies for an eventuality of Earth's fall (including sending out generation ships deep into uncharted space (or even outside Milky Way) in case the worst happens with multiple species (humans included) on receiving end of genocide), how the situation might play out then?
 
As others have said, it's not about what Weyoun wants, but what the Founder wants.

However, we see the Founder gives the order to exterminate all Cardassians rather easily, and Cardassia was an ally (even if part of the Cardassian military turned against her). If that's what they do to allies (a quick death), how they deal with defeated enemies seems worse (think the quickening). Also, the casual way Weyoun speaks of eradicating Earth's population just to prevent the likelihood of an uprising there tells me that this way of thinking comes easily to the Dominion. Just imagine what their attitude would have been had the Vorta been able to cure the disease and they later learned this disease had been engineered by a secret Federation organization. They might quite conceivably have decided on the extermination of all humanity (or all of the Federation) as a matter of principle, no matter the costs.

Yes, there are races that seem to fare better under Dominion rule (e.g. the Karemma) but we don't know how they came to be under Dominion rule in the first place.
 
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Agreed about Weyoun. He would have no feelings either way the Founders ordered... allow Earth to exist or destroy it completely.

Speaking of Weyoun... I've always felt one of the reasons why he is such a great villain is because he has no ego or wish to be in charge. Everything he does is completely in the service of the Founders. The difference in his ego is even more apparent in every scene he has with Dukat, who has the biggest ego in probably the entire franchise.

He's also one of the most loyal characters in the franchise. Certainly the most loyal villain in the franchise.
 
Farscape One said:
Speaking of Weyoun... I've always felt one of the reasons why he is such a great villain is because he has no ego or wish to be in charge. Everything he does is completely in the service of the Founders. The difference in his ego is even more apparent in every scene he has with Dukat, who has the biggest ego in probably the entire franchise.
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Didn't we see a bit of ego when he was briefly disappointed because the Founder promised Earth to the Breen? Or would that simply have been grief because he thought the Founder didn't appreciate him?
 
DonIago said:
Indeed, Damar's insurgency started in part because the Dominion was already sidelining the Cardassians in favor of the Breen.
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That was because 1) Cardassians sucked militarily, the Breen didn't 2) Cardassian Union was a part of the Dominion so it was directly obliged to obey the Dominion's orders while Breen Confederacy was an independent country and had to be given something to have them join the war.
 
And I guarantee that the Founders would have destroyed the Cardassians later anyway, even if they won the war, because they did attack their homeworld.

The Female Changeling's words to Garak in "BROKEN LINK" imply this.

"They're dead. You're dead. Cardassia is dead."
 
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