What would Mirror Neelix/Kes/Seven have been like?

[Bry_Sinclair]

Mirror Kes: The Ocampa would be the dominant force of the region, their world having not been devastated by the Caretaker, and use their mental abilities to control and influence all others that they come across. Kes would command her own strike force, her very name would strike fear into the hearts of the Kazon and Vidiians.

Mirror Seven: She would've sold her parents out to the Alliance when they tried to flee, receiving praise from the overseers and earning her a far more comfortable life, ultimately becoming a scientist looking into the (forced) cyberisation of Terrans to make them more obedient and better workers.

 

[Herbert]

Making Neelix evil could only improve the character.

 

[Sophie74656]

It's funny to me how much people hate on Neelix. I like him a lot. He's so sweet

 

[Dukhat]

This may be relevant. It appears that the Terran Empire does/did have a presence/conquests in the Delta Quadrant.

Where? Not in the show, that's for sure.

 

[Prax]

Where? Not in the show, that's for sure.

Admiral Cornwall(or maybe it was Burnham) says to Emperor Georgieu:
"Your rule extends through every system in your galaxy.
You've conquered places Starfleet hasn't even dared to explore."

 

[Dukhat]

Admiral Cornwall(or maybe it was Burnham) says to Emperor Georgieu:
"Your rule extends through every system in your galaxy.
You've conquered places Starfleet hasn't even dared to explore."

1. I haven't seen the MU episodes of DSC so I wasn't aware of that quote, thanks.

2. The Delta Quadrant isn't specifically mentioned.

3. Sounds like a lot of hyperbole to me.

4. I'm of the firm belief that DSC is a reboot, so this particular MU isn't the same one as the TOS/DS9 MU.

 

[Christopher]

Admiral Cornwall(or maybe it was Burnham) says to Emperor Georgieu:
"Your rule extends through every system in your galaxy.
You've conquered places Starfleet hasn't even dared to explore."

A secondhand assertion like that can't be taken as factual without corroboration. The speaker had no way of confirming the truth of such a claim. Just because someone says something in a story, that doesn't mean it must be true. Fictional characters shouldn't be any more infallible than real people. Sometimes they must say things that are just wrong.

And it's objectively absurd on the face of it. In Kirk's time, according to the TNG writers' bible, Starfleet had charted only 4% of the galaxy and physically explored even less -- say maybe 2%. It's mathematically impossible that the Terran Empire could've conquered 50 times as much territory in the same amount of time. Especially since we know there are numerous powers elsewhere in the galaxy that would make short work of the Empire -- the Borg, the Voth, the Dominion, not to mention the Organians, the Metrons, etc. There is no possible way the Empire could rule every system in the galaxy. The speaker probably just meant every known system within starship's reach of Earth, and even that's probably an exaggeration.

 

[Prax]

A secondhand assertion like that can't be taken as factual without corroboration. The speaker had no way of confirming the truth of such a claim. Just because someone says something in a story, that doesn't mean it must be true. Fictional characters shouldn't be any more infallible than real people. Sometimes they must say things that are just wrong.

And it's objectively absurd on the face of it. In Kirk's time, according to the TNG writers' bible, Starfleet had charted only 4% of the galaxy and physically explored even less -- say maybe 2%. It's mathematically impossible that the Terran Empire could've conquered 50 times as much territory in the same amount of time. Especially since we know there are numerous powers elsewhere in the galaxy that would make short work of the Empire -- the Borg, the Voth, the Dominion, not to mention the Organians, the Metrons, etc. There is no possible way the Empire could rule every system in the galaxy. The speaker probably just meant every known system within starship's reach of Earth, and even that's probably an exaggeration.

Whether it seems implausible or not is not enough to dismiss a direct on screen quote of this type. She didn't say "Your rule extends throughout the galaxy" or only "Your empire has practically conquered the galaxy."
She says "Your rule extends through every system in your galaxy."
Is it implausible? Yes. Is it a bad line? Yeah, I'd say so(which is why I only said "apparently the Terrans have a presense in the DQ"). Is it hyperbole? No.

Admiral Cornwall has just debriefed the Discovery crew. She has access to all of the data the Discovery brought back, hard data. She has access to Burnham, who just spent however long(weeks?) in command of a Terran Empire ship, and then spent some time on the Emperor's palace. She's in a position to know, as much as any high ranking Terran officer. So it's not a secondhand assertion without corroboration, but the opposite.

Also, the Terran Empire was much larger than the Federation. For instance, they had conquered the Andorians and Tellerites long before their prime universe counterparts had even met them, or before there even was a Federation with them. The empire is ancient, and began their conquest of space in the 21st century.

 

[Christopher]

Whether it seems implausible or not is not enough to dismiss a direct on screen quote of this type.

Of course it is, because it's an obvious impossibility in a dozen different ways. How the bloody hell can one civilization conquer four hundred billion star systems in just 200 years? That's over 60 conquests per second. The very notion is beyond insane.

Admiral Cornwall has just debriefed the Discovery crew. She has access to all of the data the Discovery brought back, hard data. She has access to Burnham, who just spent however long(weeks?) in command of a Terran Empire ship, and then spent some time on the Emperor's palace. She's in a position to know, as much as any high ranking Terran officer. So it's not a secondhand assertion without corroboration, but the opposite.

That's not so, because Cornwell is not a primary source. She only knows what she's been told, so her conclusions are only as good as her data. The data Discovery came back with is itself a secondary source -- just what was within range of its sensors and what it downloaded from Imperial databanks. And obviously the propaganda of a dictatorship cannot be trusted for a millisecond.

Also, the Terran Empire was much larger than the Federation. For instance, they had conquered the Andorians and Tellerites long before their prime universe counterparts had even met them, or before there even was a Federation with them. The empire is ancient, and began their conquest of space in the 21st century.

Yes, but the Federation is a fraction of a percent of the galaxy. The human mind can barely comprehend how immense the galaxy is. The idea that any single civilization could ever occupy the entire thing is absurd. Even if it could, it would take it thousands or millions of years to complete such an expansion. There's a limit to how far any single empire could grow in a measly 2 centuries, no matter how rapacious it was. And that limit is minuscule on the scale of the entire Milky Way. Even if they'd started conquering in 2063 and somehow conquered an average of one star system per week ever since, that's only about 10,000 star systems by 2258, a far cry from 400 billion.