Talking about it from an in-universe perspective as well as from how the show would have progressed and being received in this case.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
What would happened in TNG if "Q, Who" never was made?
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
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If Maurice Hurley hadn't come to TNG there wouldn't be any Borg. He wanted a new villain, he wanted Insectoids, that fell through so he came up with the Borg. That was a story element left on the shelf and then Michael Piller ran with it and did BOBW. Even without Hurley they would have introduce some new alien villain. You can see that with the Cardassians.
Just my opinion but in-universe I've felt that the Borg Invasion and the Battle of Wolf 359 was a huge wake up call for the complacent Federation, and obviously led to Defiant but I think also the Sovereign-class and that kinda more military look that came with First Contact and actually helped them with the Dominion War. In another universe I kinda like the idea that without the Borg and without the Dominion there's just this very vanilla ordinary universe that just keeps playing like TNG for several decades longer.
Just my opinion but in-universe I've felt that the Borg Invasion and the Battle of Wolf 359 was a huge wake up call for the complacent Federation, and obviously led to Defiant but I think also the Sovereign-class and that kinda more military look that came with First Contact and actually helped them with the Dominion War. In another universe I kinda like the idea that without the Borg and without the Dominion there's just this very vanilla ordinary universe that just keeps playing like TNG for several decades longer.
Yup. They'd have a new monster species, but would it have been as good as the Borg? Would the insect race have been as good?
Would TNG seasons 2 onward been as good? Would Michael Piller have come in or somebody else? Did Piller really set the stage, or did he refine the tone that season 2 started thanks to Hurley?
TNG would probably have continued for a while, but not for five years as season three and TBOBW really did catapult the show. (Not to mention, season 3 had more behind-the-scenes strife than I'd ever thought as well...)
Would TNG seasons 2 onward been as good? Would Michael Piller have come in or somebody else? Did Piller really set the stage, or did he refine the tone that season 2 started thanks to Hurley?
TNG would probably have continued for a while, but not for five years as season three and TBOBW really did catapult the show. (Not to mention, season 3 had more behind-the-scenes strife than I'd ever thought as well...)
Yep, i suspect this too. That's the big disadvantage for the show, creating and introducing the Borg in this form brought about imo.
Wonder what would have happened if Hurley got an okay to introduce the Insectoids he originally wanted, instead of the Borg as we know them.
What would the planned original story arc with them and Q have been like and how would the show have evolved with Hurley staying instead of Piller?
Somehow, I like to believe that Picard being forced to admit to Q that there were indeed things in the universe he and humanity weren't ready to face led him to become a slightly humbler character in later seasons, that this was an important lesson he learned in that episode.
Between Maurice Hurley and Michael Piller as showrunners you have Michael Wagner running the first four episodes of TNG, to me four really solid if not great episodes. He ended up leaving but it suggests to me even if Michael Piller hadn't come I think the show could have continued as like a "better" version of Seasons 1 and 2 for a bit. Piller did write "Evolution" so who knows how that would have turned out without him though. Other showrunners would have probably continued chafing under Roddenberry and Berman and ideas about non-conflict between the main characters but Piller made it work and made it a challenge. He made a solid writing room, he went back looked through old scripts and found what could be rewritten. He brought in new talent and opened the doors to scripts that people could send in without an agent. I think TNG would be really different without all that. Maybe still good and maybe like I said like a "better" version of 1 and 2, even if 1 and 2 is a bit more weird and strange and dangerous.
I think a "Q Who" sequel would have been inevitable but I think it might have been more formulaic. I don't think there would have been Locutus or any of the stuff Piller wrote into BOBW. I think it would have the Borg arriving and doing an attack on the Federation and not necessarily some cliffhanger season ender or anything. I think there would be no assimilation and it just be a more straight action adventure.
I think a "Q Who" sequel would have been inevitable but I think it might have been more formulaic. I don't think there would have been Locutus or any of the stuff Piller wrote into BOBW. I think it would have the Borg arriving and doing an attack on the Federation and not necessarily some cliffhanger season ender or anything. I think there would be no assimilation and it just be a more straight action adventure.
Agreed. This was my thought as well. I feel like they would have always had a god-like alien though because TOS had so many of them. There was bound to be a Q.
Without Q Who the borg still would have been introduced, they had been in the works since season 1 after all.
The pilot would have been shorter, the Q sub plot was completely unnecessary, they were already supposed to find out how Farpoint Station was build.
In universe, Q introducing Starfleet to the Borg was a needed wake-up call. Q was right in that the Federation was comparing themselves to meager adversaries when you have something like the Borg out there. If the Borg cube went against Starfleet before that encounter, I think Starfleet might have been able to destroy the cube, but not before A LOT of damage would be done to the Federation and Starfleet. They certainly wouldn't be in any shape to fight the Dominion later on. If the Borg didn't finish them off, the Dominion definitely would have.
Out of universe, the franchise would be fairly different. TNG probably won't be affected much, and DS9 would still have the Dominion War but it might only be a little different, but VOYAGER would be quite different. At the very least, we would not get Seven of Nine, which was a really helpful addition to VGR. Without Seven, VGR might not have made it to 7 seasons. In turn, ENTERPRISE wouldn't even be created.
Also with that difference, PRODIGY either wouldn't happen or would be very different. Same with PICARD.
No Borg means 3 shows being radically altered, and 1 more likely not being created.
As tired as I got with the Borg, I can't deny that they were the big bad that the general audience liked watching, and without that big bad, the landscape of the franchise would look VERY diffrent.
Out of universe, the franchise would be fairly different. TNG probably won't be affected much, and DS9 would still have the Dominion War but it might only be a little different, but VOYAGER would be quite different. At the very least, we would not get Seven of Nine, which was a really helpful addition to VGR. Without Seven, VGR might not have made it to 7 seasons. In turn, ENTERPRISE wouldn't even be created.
Also with that difference, PRODIGY either wouldn't happen or would be very different. Same with PICARD.
No Borg means 3 shows being radically altered, and 1 more likely not being created.
As tired as I got with the Borg, I can't deny that they were the big bad that the general audience liked watching, and without that big bad, the landscape of the franchise would look VERY diffrent.
Species 8472 didn't even exist in their universe. Q was trying to make a point that they were ill equipped against someone from just one quadrant over. Using a different universe to make the point wouldn't have worked because there was no guarantee Species 8472 would arrive. The Borg definitely would at some point.
There was always going to be a construction of a nefarious "other" race, ideologically opposed to the federation way of life because that is representative of how security issues in our world are constructed.
"Q Who" is the episode Q returned after being banished from ever returning to the Enterprise. Would we be saying that he never did return?
The Borg were set up to be a nearer threat at the end of season one, attacking outposts on both sides of the Romulan Neutral Zone. It's kind of head-scratching that "The Best of Both Worlds" made the Borg (distant Delta Quadrant aliens from "Q Who") the culprits. If we're saying they were never introduced, would another species come into the fray as major new baddies for the series? (Is it a cheat to make them the insectoids originally conceived of for the Borg?) But there's no reason to drop the mystery of the attacked outposts just because the Borg are out. Maybe it becomes a much bigger story with an entirely new alien species, and one that includes more Romulan involvement given their dramatic reintroduction in "The Neutral Zone."
Maybe at some point we find out why they disappeared for half a century too.
And if we need more aliens to fill the big Borg-sized whole, maybe the "Conspiracy" parasites return later in the series as well.
The Borg were set up to be a nearer threat at the end of season one, attacking outposts on both sides of the Romulan Neutral Zone. It's kind of head-scratching that "The Best of Both Worlds" made the Borg (distant Delta Quadrant aliens from "Q Who") the culprits. If we're saying they were never introduced, would another species come into the fray as major new baddies for the series? (Is it a cheat to make them the insectoids originally conceived of for the Borg?) But there's no reason to drop the mystery of the attacked outposts just because the Borg are out. Maybe it becomes a much bigger story with an entirely new alien species, and one that includes more Romulan involvement given their dramatic reintroduction in "The Neutral Zone."
Maybe at some point we find out why they disappeared for half a century too.
And if we need more aliens to fill the big Borg-sized whole, maybe the "Conspiracy" parasites return later in the series as well.
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