What would be an appropriate response by the Romulans

[danellis]

I think the only appropriate response to a deception on this magnitude which cost so many Romulan lives is to make Romulan Ale illegal again.

I think legalising it would be far more vindictive...

I have a thought on this that could even tie into DISCOVERY.
...
Now, this is the part I think could tie into DISCOVERY.

800 years later? I doubt any but the most specialised historians would even know the Dominion existed, let alone that there was a war with them. How much do you think a modern government would care about something that happened in 1375?

dJE

 

[Arpy]

They would make a show of being a wronged party. They might already know. They might have known from the start and used the excuse to enter the war anyway. And they’re holding the outrageous truth to use to their tactical advantage at an opportune time. Probably when enough of their fleet is rebuilt to hammer hard at the Federation.

Or. The Klingons. If Sloan was right about the Federation and the Romulans being the remaining superpowers while the Klingons spend the next ten years licking their wounds, maybe the Romulans wait just long enough to rebuild their fleet sufficiently to conquer an sizable chunk of their weakened mortal enemies the Klingon Empire’s territory, doing so to only moderate reprisal by a preoccupied and distracted Federation reeling from the scandal.

A scandal exploding between not only both nations’ diplomats, but also a divided Federation public, Federation trade and military partners, and among its other adversaries in the broader interstellar community. Why should the Tholians or the Tzenkethi or the Jarada or whomever continue to negotiate in good faith with the Federation after such a bloody lie? That is, like the Romulans, how much can they too use it to their advantage? “What else has the Federation been lying to us about all this time?” “Station Salem-One was an inside job! The Sheliak Corporate demands renegotiation of Treaty per subsection c4557.321!” “No Evora, don’t join the Federation liars, but consider the Breen Confederation!”

So, during all that, the Romulans manufacture some incident to spark a conflict with the Klingons to annex large swaths of both contested and plainly Klingon territory in the biggest land-grab from either side in a over century.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

he did not define clear limits as to what Garak could and could not do.

Not that Garak would have ever respected such limits...

 

[at Quark's]

I think legalising it would be far more vindictive...
800 years later? I doubt any but the most specialised historians would even know the Dominion existed, let alone that there was a war with them. How much do you think a modern government would care about something that happened in 1375?
dJE

I would expect the average westerner (at least the average European since it concerns them) to know that there was a time during the 13th century that the expanding Mongol Empire looked like a serious threat to Europe. That's about 800 years ago, too.

Not that I think it would be easy to tell a story where that kind of knowledge could come directly into play regarding a situation today, I'll agree on that.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Sorry we killed the entire crew of your starship. Even?

 

[danellis]

I would expect the average westerner (at least the average European since it concerns them) to know that there was a time during the 13th century that the expanding Mongol Empire looked like a serious threat to Europe. That's about 800 years ago, too.

Not that I think it would be easy to tell a story where that kind of knowledge could come directly into play regarding a situation today, I'll agree on that.

That's an interesting example, I always want to put the Genghis Khan in the 6th Century! (FTR I'm British and would ordinarily consider my knowledge of history above average.)

dJE

 

[kkt]

I'm not so sure. It might well be that Sisko is still diplomatically (even if not actually) responsible for Vreenak's death, since the entire operation ran under his command, and he did not define clear limits as to what Garak could and could not do.

Compare it to politics, where a minister of a department sometimes has to take formal responsibility and step down for a mistake some of their underlings or predecessors made. It's even entirely possible that that politician honestly had no knowledge of that mistake before it was brought up.

Or if an ordinary seaman screws up and accidentally sinks a navy ship, it's still the captain who gets sacked. The captain decides on the training and supervision required for the seaman, so...

 

[at Quark's]

Not that Garak would have ever respected such limits...

True.

Then again, that might be the very reason Sisko enlisted Garak. As Garak puts it ...

... That's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked. And you'll get what you want, a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain.

After all, the step between letting an enlisted aid do those things you can't do yourself but which you know 'should' be done, and not instructing that aid on strict boundaries when you know they might very well step over those not-worded boundaries on the matter is not particularly large.

 

[dupersuper]

800 years later? I doubt any but the most specialized historians would even know the Dominion existed, let alone that there was a war with them.

They seem to be quite well informed. They still knew who Spock was. Also, why are you presuming they don't still exist in some form? They were around for over 1,000 years before the Federation met them.

How much do you think a modern government would care about something that happened in 1375?

*looks at middle east* Ummmm...

 

[Oddish]

They would probably be so embarrassed that a rank amateur and an exiled Cardassian nobody fooled them so thoroughly.

As for declaring war or dome such thing, it would depend on one, whether they thought they could win, and two, whether they thought hostilities with the Dominion might resume at some point.

 

[kkt]

I think the Romulans would have a healthy respect for the Obsidian Order.

 

[Kor]

The explanation of Romulan Ale's illegality was always that it was part of a Federation trade embargo, not that the Romulans imposed some sort of ban that would affect people in the Federation.

Anyway, I think the Romulans would sweep this whole plot under the rug if they found out, but maybe become even more distrustful of Starfleet and the Federation when it came to any further dealings.

Wasn’t there a novel on the fallout from “It’s a FAKE?”

Una McCormack's "Hollow Men." I think I have it sitting around somewhere but I've never gotten around to reading it. So I don't know if the Romulans found out the truth about Vreenak etc. in that novel or not.

Kor

 

[kkt]

How would the Romulans find out? Who knows the secret? Sisko and Garak, but they aren't going to tell. Starfleet Command, but they aren't going to tell either. Quark and Gowron and Odo know that Tolar was on DS9 but don't know why. Bashir knows Sisko wanted some biomimetic gel, but doesn't know why. Dax might have figured it out, but she isn't going to tell and was dead seven episodes later anyway. I guess if Jadzia did figure it out, Ezri probably knew too, but in addition to Jadzia's reasons for not talking about it there's also the general Trill ethic of not letting a previous life interfere with the current one.

I think the secret is pretty safe.

 

[Kor]

In the series I don't think Sisko ever even told his superiors what really happened. Sure, according to Sisko, Starfleet Command had OK'ed or "given their blessing" to the plan to deceive Vreenak with the fake recording (so much for Starfleet integrity... which is kind of the point of the episode). But that doesn't mean they OK'ed killing him if he wasn't convinced. They could have put two and two together after the fact, but it was probably never a matter of record.

Kor

 

[kkt]

In the series I don't think Sisko ever even told his superiors what really happened. Sure, according to Sisko, Starfleet Command had OK'ed or "given their blessing" to the plan to deceive Vreenak with the fake recording (so much for Starfleet integrity... which is kind of the point of the episode). But that doesn't mean they OK'ed killing him if he wasn't convinced. They could have put two and two together after the fact, but it was probably never a matter of record.

You're right, Sisko would probably feel better if it was never written down, even at Starfleet Command. Perhaps he briefed Admiral Ross and another admiral or two, just so they could have some contingency plans in mind in case word leaked to the Romulans - but if he did, it would have been strictly face to face, no recordings, in a location where no one could be listening in.

 

[JediKnightButler]

Just simply said.. "Well Played".
Then continue to scheme of there own as they always have.

“A scheme worthy of a Romulan”

 

[FederationHistorian]

Romulans: Publicly, make a scandal out of this. Privately, give the Federation props, even though it was Garak that blew up Vreenak; while Sisko discussed with the Federation the plan to deceive Vreenak with false evidence to bring the Romulans into the war, there was no green light to murder Vreenak.

Of course, it also depends on when the Romulans make the scandal public, as they would want as much leverage as possible. If revealed before the Shinzon coup, it may lead to a conflict between the Federation and the Romulan Empire, and the Romulans would be well aware that the Federation would want to avoid conflict with them at that point. If revealed between the coup and the supernova, worlds from the Federation might be pushed to actually follow through with seceding, which would weaken the Federation. Immediately after the supernova, stirs up anti-Federation sentiment among Romulans, and possibly extremism.

Klingons: Any sense of dishonor is cancelled out by the fact that it was a Romulan and a criminal that died instead of a Klingon, and that it brought victory.

Bajorans: Would see Sisko as doing what is necessary to oppose evil. And for this, may create radicals if the Romulan Empire want Sisko extradited and try to personally escort him off the station.

 

[Arpy]

Huh…interesting the Bajoran perspective. Maybe a new sect would wonder if he is the savior they thought he was after all. Or if Sisko was in fact a Mephistophelean deceiver who fooled the Romulans into the Federation’s war (a war Bajor was doing well enough under), and who fooled them into the Federation itself.

Maybe the Cardassians would look at their Federation conquerors differently too. As would prospective members. And aliens who are sticklers for protocol, law, and propriety — the Tholians, Sheliak, and Jarada.

The Romulans, especially after the supernova, might wonder what might have been if they’d stayed out of the war altogether. Maybe the ancient Dominion could have defused the star.

The Klingons might be happy about it but they wouldn’t look at the Federation the same way.

Conversely the Breen might respect their enemies all the more.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I assume you mean if it came out before the destruction of Romulus?

It's hard to say because they were in no position to start a real offensive against the Federation at the time. They wouldn't have started a war, but they would have used it to sew mistrust between the Federation and its allies for political gain.

As for the other powers, I think anyone who is friendly to the Federation would either not believe it, or rationalize it. "But...if he hadn't done that, Romulus and the Federation would both have been conquered, right?" Remember the entire quadrant spent a good deal of the previous few years in terror imagining an aerial assault and gem'hadar soldiers marching through their cities. Their collective relief at the time would make them far less picky about how it came about.