If it wasn't for the big reset button at the end of every episode, the crew of every non-serialised Trek would be basket cases by their series finales.
What was your impression of Season 2 overall?
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
Disappointed is the best word. It's like when your parents say they aren't mad in you but are disappointed. I guess I'm feeling the feeling that some fans felt when Enterprise aired. I've said it before but when I realized that I'd rather have more Pike than the rest of the Discovery crew (none of which I care about), I knew I wasn't a fan of this season. It looks amazing and I'll admit that blinded me for a little while but once I had some time to reflect, my true feelings came out. And you and I both know we'll both watch season 3. That's just how some of us are.
Picard is the only show I'm actually excited for. I suspect that TPTB are trying to copy what Disney is doing in a way. I just hope that they don't over saturate us with Trek the way they did with Star Wars.
It's probably going to go the over-saturation route again. Eventually. We're not there yet. This is what a standard cycle looks like:
--> "I want it back!" --> "It's back!" --> "We need more!" --> "That's just about right!" --> "There's a ton now!" --> "There's too much!" --> "They're doing another one?!" --> "When will it end already?" --> "It's finally over. I'll always remember the good stuff." --> "I kind of miss it." --> "When will it come back?" -->
Then the cycle repeats itself again.
That's why I'm always very careful to say I'm only sticking around for what I like, not the whole thing. With just Discovery and Short Treks out, we're still at the "We need more!" stage. Once Picard premieres we'll be at the "Just about right!" stage.
Double-Post. Anyone who knows me knows I thought this out. So you probably want to see where I put everything in the cycle I just posted. Here you go. 
Previous Cycle:
"I want it back!" --> The 1970s.
"It's back!" --> The releases of TMP and TWOK. It took both those films.
"We need more!" --> After TWOK's release but before TNG's premiere.
"That's just about right!" --> When TNG was on TV and TOS movies were still in theaters.
"There's a ton now!" --> When DS9 premiered and overlapped with TNG.
"There's too much!" --> When TNG immediately went to movies and VOY premiered.
"They're doing another one?!" --> When ENT premiered.
"When will it end already?" --> After Nemesis bombed and UPN threatened to cancel ENT.
"It's finally over. I'll always remember the good stuff." --> After ENT ended.
"I kind of miss it." --> From 2006 on. Since CBS and Paramount split, I'll only be looking at the TV end since Star Trek's return to the Big Screen was announced pretty quickly after this point.
"When will it come back?" --> After the 2009 film was released, this was when people started seriously wondering when not if Star Trek would return to TV.
Current Cycle:
"I want it back!" --> Star Trek being released on Netflix in 2011 and the re-mastering of TNG starting in 2012 is what got the ball rolling.
"It's back!" --> The premiere of Discovery.
"We need more!" --> With shorter seasons meant longer gaps that Short Treks will only fill up so much.
"That's just about right!" --> Once we have both Discovery and Picard.
"There's a ton now!" --> Once the rest of what's currently down the pipeline is out.
So that's my take on The Franchise from about 1970 to 2021-ish.
Previous Cycle:
"I want it back!" --> The 1970s.
"It's back!" --> The releases of TMP and TWOK. It took both those films.
"We need more!" --> After TWOK's release but before TNG's premiere.
"That's just about right!" --> When TNG was on TV and TOS movies were still in theaters.
"There's a ton now!" --> When DS9 premiered and overlapped with TNG.
"There's too much!" --> When TNG immediately went to movies and VOY premiered.
"They're doing another one?!" --> When ENT premiered.
"When will it end already?" --> After Nemesis bombed and UPN threatened to cancel ENT.
"It's finally over. I'll always remember the good stuff." --> After ENT ended.
"I kind of miss it." --> From 2006 on. Since CBS and Paramount split, I'll only be looking at the TV end since Star Trek's return to the Big Screen was announced pretty quickly after this point.
"When will it come back?" --> After the 2009 film was released, this was when people started seriously wondering when not if Star Trek would return to TV.
Current Cycle:
"I want it back!" --> Star Trek being released on Netflix in 2011 and the re-mastering of TNG starting in 2012 is what got the ball rolling.
"It's back!" --> The premiere of Discovery.
"We need more!" --> With shorter seasons meant longer gaps that Short Treks will only fill up so much.
"That's just about right!" --> Once we have both Discovery and Picard.
"There's a ton now!" --> Once the rest of what's currently down the pipeline is out.
So that's my take on The Franchise from about 1970 to 2021-ish.
I get that people are like this, but I personally could never understand why. I never saw all of TNG (and don't care to). I didn't make it through VOY, despite trying through the whole first two or three seasons (more than I gave TNG). ENT got one episode out of me. And Picard has exactly one episode to impress me. Or, I'm out.
If I'm disappointed in a product I'm not going back to just because of branding. That is super confusing to me.
I don't see it as a Disney copy. TPTB have stated they want Trek running fairly constantly to support subscription rates. Yeah, it's going to push towards saturation.
I'm weird but oversaturation is fine by me.
Still confused by people who think Picard will be at all for people who love TNG. Everything we've seen looks tonally nothing like TNG, and everything SirPatStew has said was that he was drawn to the project because it was unlike TNG. The marketing angle seems to be more of a "It's like DSC, but with a really amazing lead actor you already like in the lead". (No slight on SMG, there's no way she could have 30 years of good feelings attached to a brand new character.) In fact, so far, it looks like it's EXACTLY for people who liked S2 DSC in particular, which seems to be a pretty large group.
Except, I don't like Picard. So, the appeal is diminished for me. Picard's appeal to me is the Romulan angle and hopefully an interesting story. But, there are few, if any, characters I am invested in thus far. Yes, I know, it's early yet. As I said, it's got an episode to impress me.
But, I imagine the appeal, even if it isn't like TNG, is still that TNG cast draw (Picard, Riker, Troi, Data).
I'm looking forward to Picard because I care about what happens to those characters and I'm eager to see how they've changed in twenty years. I don't care about anyone in Discovery.
They've been pretty clear I think that the action quotient for Picard is going to be significantly lower than Discovery.
I think the biggest difference is: PIC adds on top. DIS is changing the already existing and beloved.
Visible in stuff like the "starship design" threads where we now often hear comments like "the classic Enterprise is supposed to always have looked like the DIS-variant". No. First of all, the Matt Jeffries design is iconic, and better, but more importantly: if the show makes be think about shit like that while watching, it stops being an immersive experience. For me, the illusion of reality is very important for my enjoyment. If a show constantly reminds me it's just a show - willing or unwilling - I'll experience the whole thing more analytical and less emotional. And DIS really breaks apart of you watch it with an analytical mindset.
Visible in stuff like the "starship design" threads where we now often hear comments like "the classic Enterprise is supposed to always have looked like the DIS-variant". No. First of all, the Matt Jeffries design is iconic, and better, but more importantly: if the show makes be think about shit like that while watching, it stops being an immersive experience. For me, the illusion of reality is very important for my enjoyment. If a show constantly reminds me it's just a show - willing or unwilling - I'll experience the whole thing more analytical and less emotional. And DIS really breaks apart of you watch it with an analytical mindset.
I'm at least engaged with DSC and its characters and find changes to TOS era additive, rather than destructive. PIC doesn't feel additive thus far (again, limited information) save for the Romulan piece.
The action quotient for Picard himself, but not for the show. Hearing producers talk about a show they are hyping is a definite read-between-the-lines exercise, a la every new show / season is "truer to the spirit of TOS than anything before". They've surrounded SirPatStew with a younger cast for melodrama and being able to take the falls (I'm only half serious, but that's enough).
I do expect there will be a good deal of melodrama in PIC - which I suppose is a commonality with DIS. But Deep Space Nine had a lot of melodrama and it was a great show.
That said, while it's hard to tell from the trailers and the promotional material, it does seem like the "new cast" are way more fleshed out overall than Discovery's supporting characters. I mean, I can already get an idea that characters like Rio, Musiker, Elnor, and Narek have their own distinct backstories and motivations as characters. In contrast, over the course of two seasons, we still don't really have a good idea of the backstory of Tilly or Stamets - and for the most part the motivation of all of the Discovery crew seems to be "like, be the best Starfleet officer I can be!"
I came to like the Discovery cast myself... I was hoping to learn how they went on to influence other areas of the TOS-TMP world after their stint in Discovery. I am a bit disappointed that I can't imagine Tilly in charge of one of those other Constitutions out there, having matured into the captaincy she always wanted. Now if it happens, it'll be in the era of hyper organic grey-matter starships from a design period I really couldn't care less about (kinda hate TNG ship design).
Yeah, the ties DSC had to TOS was one of the strongest reasons for me to check it out. Now that's gone, i'm afraid it's going to build on the berman-era installments, which I am so done with.
Yeah, the ties DSC had to TOS was one of the strongest reasons for me to check it out. Now that's gone, i'm afraid it's going to build on the berman-era installments, which I am so done with.
You left out TAS in 1973-74.Double-Post. Anyone who knows me knows I thought this out. So you probably want to see where I put everything in the cycle I just posted. Here you go.
Previous Cycle:
"I want it back!" --> The 1970s.
"It's back!" --> The releases of TMP and TWOK. It took both those films.
"We need more!" --> After TWOK's release but before TNG's premiere.
"That's just about right!" --> When TNG was on TV and TOS movies were still in theaters.
"There's a ton now!" --> When DS9 premiered and overlapped with TNG.
"There's too much!" --> When TNG immediately went to movies and VOY premiered.
"They're doing another one?!" --> When ENT premiered.
"When will it end already?" --> After Nemesis bombed and UPN threatened to cancel ENT.
"It's finally over. I'll always remember the good stuff." --> After ENT ended.
"I kind of miss it." --> From 2006 on. Since CBS and Paramount split, I'll only be looking at the TV end since Star Trek's return to the Big Screen was announced pretty quickly after this point.
"When will it come back?" --> After the 2009 film was released, this was when people started seriously wondering when not if Star Trek would return to TV.
Current Cycle:
"I want it back!" --> Star Trek being released on Netflix in 2011 and the re-mastering of TNG starting in 2012 is what got the ball rolling.
"It's back!" --> The premiere of Discovery.
"We need more!" --> With shorter seasons meant longer gaps that Short Treks will only fill up so much.
"That's just about right!" --> Once we have both Discovery and Picard.
"There's a ton now!" --> Once the rest of what's currently down the pipeline is out.
So that's my take on The Franchise from about 1970 to 2021-ish.
(There were plenty of people saying he it's back <--- And hell, that was the first 'fan schism' - and many considered TAS - "Yesteryear" as good as some of the original live action episodes of TOS from 1966-69)
I didn't get my "its back!" excitement and giddiness until I found fan films, and it was like TOS was back. (pre TNG 80s kid here.... )
You left out TAS in 1973-74.
(There were plenty of people saying he it's back <--- And hell, that was the first 'fan schism' - and many considered TAS - "Yesteryear" as good as some of the original live action episodes of TOS from 1966-69)
I can't say because I wasn't born yet, but I was under the impression TAS wasn't seen as a full-fledged revival given that it was a Saturday morning cartoon. I thought people who were watching TAS liked it but still wanted Star Trek to return in live-action form. You were there, I wasn't. But even if we only look from 1975 on, starting from when Gene Roddenberry began writing The God Thing, I think what I have works. I don't think Paramount was seriously looking at it as The Franchise, which is my focus, until they wanted to make a movie.
I was born (and watching - I was 11, although I started watch TOS at age 6 in 1969) - and yes, it was treated as a revival of sorts because of the writers (like TOS staff D. C. Fontana, and novel writers like Larry Niven, who contributed a story that was made.)
I was just beginning my Trek trek in 73-74, so wasn't into it enough for it to preempt my watching of CBS' and ABC's far superior morning lineup yet. Super Friends and Bugs, Batman, and Billy Batson had me at hello. I wasn't missing what I wasn't yet missing. Though I had two TAS puzzles I stupidly Goodwilled like 20 years ago. I kept so many stupider things.
I grew up just as TNG was coming on. My folks gave Season 1 a try, then checked out and showed me TOS. I've come to like (and miss) that more than TNG... I was just waiting for berman-era trek to be over so they could go back to the feel of the original series.
Unfortunately it feels like TNG is all that anyone remembers, given how pervasive it's been over the rest of Star Trek (as I watch the DSC Klingons get re-booted into their TNG counterparts).
Unfortunately it feels like TNG is all that anyone remembers, given how pervasive it's been over the rest of Star Trek (as I watch the DSC Klingons get re-booted into their TNG counterparts).
