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What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"

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Reliant Robin said:
TNG might have been more important than Enterprise in the wider scheme of things by some measures, but it wasn't more important than Enteprise to Enterprise. It also got seven series, and however many films to give itself a fitting tribute and finish.
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Hear hear.

TNG had its run. Seven years on the telly and four movies, the last of which proved that general audiences had enough of it. Nemesis didn't fail because it was shit, it failed because people got fed up with 1990's Trek.

Not allowing ENT's cast to have its own finale was borderline distasteful, and even the B&B's became aware of it by now.

BTW, the day after tomorrow is both Friday the 13th and TATV's 6 year anniversary. THE HORROR! :lol:
 
Well, by my personal measure, since I much prefered Enterprise. That counts :p And it was also a landmark series for dogs in space.

I'll grant TNG did have a wider cultural impact both within and without the Trek universe, but that still doesn't justify it getting its beard all over our finale. It's like an irritating royal at this point, it has to get in on everything when it ought to know when to butt out and let the proles have their fun ;)

I'm honestly curious, was it even a satisfying episode from the POV of a TNG fan? It didn't feel to me like it actually provided much in the way of closure or quality even from that perspective. If it was too TNG-y for the Ent fans, wasn't it also too Ent-y for the TNG fans?
 
Gaith said:
:rommie: Please name one measure in which it wasn't, apart from references in Trek XI. :p
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Well, it clearly hasn't been proven more important in this particular forum. Jonathan and Marina have certainly taken a pounding as have Bermaga for inflicting a hack version of a TNG episode on the fans of Enterprise. And since fans of Voyager and Deep Space Nine were also slighted by this "farewell to all of Trek," I suspect they weren't all that enthusiastic either. At least TOS fans got the "Space ... the final frontier" sendoff thanks to Mike Sussman.

As to whether TNG was "superior" to all of the other Trek series, that's bull. Quite a few people on this board -- including devoted TNG fans -- have admitted that the show is cursed with being stuck in the touchy-feely '80s. :p
And I'm certain that if TNG hadn't been the only game in town, the cast would have been lucky to make it to the end of season one (in fact, I understand Stewart was so certain the show was crap that he didn't even unpack for the first year).
 
Reliant Robin said:
I'll grant TNG did have a wider cultural impact both within and without the Trek universe, but that still doesn't justify it getting its beard all over our finale.
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Yes, it did. ;)


Reliant Robin said:
I'm honestly curious, was it even a satisfying episode from the POV of a TNG fan? It didn't feel to me like it actually provided much in the way of closure or quality even from that perspective.
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TNG got all the closure it ever needed from "All Good Things"; anything else is just gravy. And in the "What was right with TATV" thread, which appears to have been mod-merged into this one, there were several people who declared they liked the episode just fine, myself included. So ENT didn't get a finale all to itself - and? Voyager did, and it got the worst Trek send-off ever.

Even if the "Pegasus" connection is wonky, and it should have been a Titan-set bookend, I loved seeing Frakes and Sirtis return, and on any objective artistic scale, there were many far worse ENT eps, and far worse TNGsfor that matter, also.
 
Admiral Shran said:
Mach5 said:
BTW, the day after tomorrow is both Friday the 13th and TATV's 6 year anniversary. THE HORROR! :lol:
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Quite a coincidence, if you believe in coincidences. :shifty:
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No. The coincidence is that Friday is the anniversary of Enterprise's finale, Terra Prime.

terra_prime_550-1.jpg
terra.gif
 
Fun fact - TP and TATV also premiered on Friday the 13th (2005).

BTW, here's a thought. The fat old Riker and MILF boobjob Troi (with a wrong hairdo) simply DON'T FIT into Pegasus' time frame no matter how hard one tried to squeeze them in there (even then, in 2005, I found it utterly impossible to suspend my disbelief), therefore, TATV is not, nor could it ever be, a part of my personal Trek continuity. How about you, people?

Also, one day someone really should edit "TATV" and "The Pegasus" together into one long episode. I wonder how many people would find that thing watchable. I can't imagine even the TATV apologists liking it.
 
Mach5 said:
Fun fact - TP and TATV also premiered on Friday the 13th (2005).

BTW, here's a thought. The fat old Riker and MILF boobjob Troi (with a wrong hairdo) simply DON'T FIT into Pegasus' time frame no matter how hard one tried to squeeze them in there (even then, in 2005, I found it utterly impossible to suspend my disbelief), therefore, TATV is not, nor could it ever be, a part of my personal Trek continuity. How about you, people?
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I want someone to edit together a fan film where the entirety of TATV is actually a holodeck simulation in the 29th Century by a temporal agent, of Riker during the timeframe of Pegasus to see if messing with the timeline of ENT era would destroy the timeline during the TNG era. They realize that it would destroy the continuity of the future, so they decide to delete the entire holodeck simulation.

Everyone happy now? :cool:
 
I have heard a lot of people bash this. It is not that bad. I have read people say it's the worst episode of Enterprise.

I was thrown off by the chef being so important. Either I missed that or it came out of nowhere.

Too bad this show was cancelled. Probably could have had a better ending. They loved story arcs. A good one probably could have tied into the ending somehow. So to me that is what is most wrong with this episode, that it was forced too soon. It is easy to point out what is wrong with an episode but it is diffucult to write a good episode, especialy a series finally.
 
Mach5 said:
The fat old Riker and MILF boobjob Troi (with a wrong hairdo) simply DON'T FIT into Pegasus' time frame no matter how hard one tried to squeeze them in there (even then, in 2005, I found it utterly impossible to suspend my disbelief)
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Crikey; I can be a fairly shallow guy when it comes to looks, but even I'm getting a little creeped out by all the "Frakes and Sirtis were so fat!" remarks that pop up several times a page on this thread. Okay, so they both put on a few pounds over the course of almost a decade... and? I'm not immune to this line of reasoning - I don't want the Shat to come back to Kirk because he's grown too large, also - but then, I don't use that as a pretext to dump all over him as a real-world figure. :rolleyes:
 
And their wives, at 50 or so, are all hotter and always fitter than Marina.

The jury has spoken. :p
 
I don't care that Jonathan and Marina were older and had put on a few pounds.

I cared that they got more screen time than the CAST OF ENTERPRISE!!!! :klingon: And that none of their scenes added anything of substance to the story.
 
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