Based just on the way he was utilized, I would consider Worf to have been the Enterprise-D's seniormost Tactical Officer throughout Season 1.
What was Worf's job before he became Chief of Security?
- Thread starter Bacl
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Jp, my take as well.
Worf and LaForge were junior officers on the fast track to command positions and were required to familiarize themselves with all ship procedures and eventually specialized into their later positions (Worf maybe a bit earlier than planned and possibly not with the position he had in mind originally).
Once they clocked enough experience to justify their new positions they also received the required promotions to go with the jobs.
I like it as an idea. Sort of tracks with being very senior junor officers by position, like Kim in Voyager, an Ensign who presumably had higher ranking direct reports, Tuvok had 12 departments reporting to him it said in one ep I'm sure, Kim must have had at least ONE...
But, if we assume Starfleet has a fast-track command tier of officers, like Saavik in WOK, then it would explain all these high positions for lowly ranks.
In the real military of course as often comes up, rank and position are two very different things, the latter is your job and the former in peacetime is for time served, however you would not in the real military give a green Ensign like Kim such massive responsibility.
How long before Daryl comes and shoots this thread with his crossbow?
Apologies for adding to the bumpage, but I'm curious as to when exactly these other Commanders and Lt Cmdrs were referenced?
Iirc the Medical Officer was Cmdr?
At 150 crew I doubt the Voyager would truly be large enough to have so many Cmdr level ranks.
On the Voyager, Harry was the Chief Operations Officer - the same position Data held on the Enterprise - despite his low rank, so your assigned role aboard a ship clearly has nothing to do with rank.
I believe it's from a casualty list Seven references in "Imperfection". (link) MA mentions that most of the names are references to The West Wing.
As said, "Imperfection" graphics. We know the ship was in deep trouble after "Caretaker", personnel wise: Janeway would not have lightly agreed to having space pirates take over important positions in her chain of command. So casualties as significant as those listed in the graphic might be realistic after all.
His collar pips were glimpsed when he scowled at Paris. Two and a half pips there.
http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0173.jpg
We didn't get his name, but the graphic presents us with some options.
Arguably so. But the tiny Defiant had an overload of high-rankers, too, at 40 crew but one Captain, one Major/LtColonel (LtCmdr/Cmdr) and two LtCmdrs that we know of.
This was after the massive casualties, so it might be that Starfleet normally waits until an Ops-trained officer reaches higher rank before giving him a Chief Operations Officer position. And for some reason, Janeway just didn't want to promote anybody in rank despite needing to promote them in position...
Timo Saloniemi
^ Actually, all indications from Caretaker itself are that Chief Operations Officer was Harry's official assignment from Starfleet, not something that was given to him by Janeway after the ship was stranded.
The title "chief" is never attached to Kim before the calamitous stranding. He's just "the new Operations officer", the new kid who gets to be shown the ropes. So I wouldn't say "all indications" - I'd say "no indications".
What the writers intended is unclear. What they ended up with doesn't dictate "COO" or "Junior OO" or anything in between, but we can bask in the warmth of the idea that the world makes sense and raw Ensigns don't get to be department heads.
Timo Saloniemi
What the writers intended is unclear. What they ended up with doesn't dictate "COO" or "Junior OO" or anything in between, but we can bask in the warmth of the idea that the world makes sense and raw Ensigns don't get to be department heads.
Timo Saloniemi
He's clearly the primary Ops officer, and the way that Janeway interacts with him does indicate that, despite his low rank, she'll be relying on him to handle much of the duties associated with being the ship's primary Ops officer, including sitting in on Senior staff meetings.
Wow- so the whole thing was just a big joke? I'm tempted to almost say that that graphic is sooo ridiculous to the point that it should not be considered canon!
Well, in fairness, they were all crew from DS9 which had a population of thousands. They just used the Defiant for the Trek equivalent of driving to Walmart for some beer!
True enough. We'd be hard pressed to find 40 officers aboard the station by going through all the episodes, though... Starfleet always seemed to be a tiny presence aboard the station, compared with the total population or even the total crew.
We never got solid figures, but "Captive Pursuit" has O'Brien quote 300 people early on, while the total population does seem to be in the thousands later on. Could that 300 refer to the operating crew (Starfleet plus Bajoran), or is it the total population during the episode? Hard to tell.
Presumably, the Defiant had a crew of her own, even if the DS9 top officers commanded her - somebody flew her from Earth (Mars?) to DS9 in "The Search"! Again, dialogue remains muddled on this issue. But this brings us right back to Worf, who at some point moved to live aboard the ship, and supposedly commanded her in practice for most of the time, and was even officially considered to be in command of her in "Apocalypse Rising" (whereas Kira was in command of the station), absent Sisko. I guess Starfleet command structures never are particularly rigid...
Timo Saloniemi
We never got solid figures, but "Captive Pursuit" has O'Brien quote 300 people early on, while the total population does seem to be in the thousands later on. Could that 300 refer to the operating crew (Starfleet plus Bajoran), or is it the total population during the episode? Hard to tell.
Presumably, the Defiant had a crew of her own, even if the DS9 top officers commanded her - somebody flew her from Earth (Mars?) to DS9 in "The Search"! Again, dialogue remains muddled on this issue. But this brings us right back to Worf, who at some point moved to live aboard the ship, and supposedly commanded her in practice for most of the time, and was even officially considered to be in command of her in "Apocalypse Rising" (whereas Kira was in command of the station), absent Sisko. I guess Starfleet command structures never are particularly rigid...
Timo Saloniemi
There are some things in the beginning of the TNG Companion about this. It actually is not clear what Worf was or was supposed to be. He was referenced as a "marine." Okay. It's not real clear what LaForge was supposed to be either. They literally were not sure, or so goes my reading based on that.
It's obvious to me in those awkward early shows that Tasha, LaForge, and Worf are kind of occupying the same territory that needed clarification. As the Series progressed, LaForge defaulted into chief engineer (the whole guest chief engineer deal is really awkward in those early shows), Worf defaulted into the security guy, and Tasha ended up really extraneous. It turned out to work quite well as such.
It's obvious to me in those awkward early shows that Tasha, LaForge, and Worf are kind of occupying the same territory that needed clarification. As the Series progressed, LaForge defaulted into chief engineer (the whole guest chief engineer deal is really awkward in those early shows), Worf defaulted into the security guy, and Tasha ended up really extraneous. It turned out to work quite well as such.
I believe the thinking, in a ret-con sort of way, is that Worf was something of a "watch officer" he'd take over whatever position was vacant on the bridge when someone left. You'd probably extend that idea into he hadn't settled into a career path yet so was suited for this position until he "picked a major", so to speak. Which happened to be security when Tasha died.
With Geordi, Picard in "The Next Phase" tells a story of how he met LaForge during an inspection tour of (a) ship (the Enterprise?) and made an off-handed comment about the shuttle's engines. LaForge then spent the night correcting the problem for the next use of the shuttle, prompting Picard to remember LaForge.
It's my theory that in Geordi was recruited by Picard to be the Chief Engineer but Geordi had to wait a year because the E-D was being used as a training ship for other engineers going to other Galaxy-Class ships with the newest engine designs. During this year Geordi worked along with these engineers to get his own time in and to also await a promotion to a more meaningful rank. (His rank in Season 1 being Lieutenant, Junior Grade.)
With Geordi, Picard in "The Next Phase" tells a story of how he met LaForge during an inspection tour of (a) ship (the Enterprise?) and made an off-handed comment about the shuttle's engines. LaForge then spent the night correcting the problem for the next use of the shuttle, prompting Picard to remember LaForge.
It's my theory that in Geordi was recruited by Picard to be the Chief Engineer but Geordi had to wait a year because the E-D was being used as a training ship for other engineers going to other Galaxy-Class ships with the newest engine designs. During this year Geordi worked along with these engineers to get his own time in and to also await a promotion to a more meaningful rank. (His rank in Season 1 being Lieutenant, Junior Grade.)
He was there to appear on all the brochures.
