What Was the Per Episode Budget? How Did This Show Afford It’s Epic Scope?

[GuyX]

You’ll have to pardon my ignorance, I’m a relatively new Star Trek fan. I had been waiting & waiting for DS9 to get an HD remaster but finally gave up and decided to take the plunge. I just finished season 7 and immediately had to find somewhere to talk about DS9.
This show just blew me away. It’s not only my favourite Star Trek Series thus far but it’s become one of my favourite series period. The characters? My god. The bench is so deep. What really grabbed my attention was the scope & action. I watched episodes like “Sacrifice of Angels” of “Way of the Warrior” and can’t fathom how they managed such amazing visuals on a 1990s TV budget. DS9 had in half a season more ship battles than TOS & TNG combined! How did they afford it? With TNG I always got the feeling they just couldn’t afford those kinds of sequences given their rarity.

After watching it, it shocks me DS9 wasn’t more popular. This was a great show! As much as I love TOS & TNG they don’t have near the deep bench of characters of DS9 had. I could’ve watched a show on Quarks Bar alone! I didn’t much care for Wesley Crusher in TNG & I feared Jake would be Wesley 2.0. But then we meet a little dude named Nog and a great friendship is formed. This show made the Ferengi loveable!

It’s kind of ironic. With the Nu Trek shows I miss the “adventure of the week” stories. But on TNG I wished there was a season long or series long story line. I hoped that’s where they were headed with The Borg but no. Then comes DS9 and does exactly what I wanted from TNG. Serialized storytelling. Again...how was this show not a bigger hit than Voyager?(since finishing DS9 I’ve tried a few Voyager episodes and I’m underwhelmed to say the least. I miss Garrack).

My rambling aside, does anyone know how this show was able to achieve so much given the limitations of 90s television? I know they switched to CGI part way thru the show but still...CGI isn’t cheap and the CGI here is miles better than stuff I see even today of certain CW superhero shows.

 

[MacLeod]

Welcome to the board, the figure I most often I heard for the per budget episode episode was US$2.5m the highest figure I heard was US$4m. As to how they used their budget just like other shows they re-used footage where they could. Given the more stationary location they perhaps didn't have to build as many new sets for episodes as the ship based shows did saving money thre which could be spend on other things.

As for why DSN isn't as popular with the general audience there are perhaps several reasons

It had a big hurdle to overcome part of what Star Trek is about in pop culture is "To Boldly go, where no one has gone before". Which a space station isn't exactly known for.

Due to the success of TNG by the time DSN started earning many more Sci-Fi shows where being produced than when TNG aired.

Just like TNG it's first couple of seasons where not an indication of the quality it would achieve and so perhaps some viewers tuned out and never came back. I would argue that overall S1-2 of DSN is better than S1-2 of TNG.

 

[Tosk]

Two million sounds about right for the later seasons. As per the Making of DS9 book, season one eps cost between 1.2 and 1.7 million.

It's worth noting though, that the budget covers everything. Those millions disappear fast when you are paying for everything. The actors, every crew person listed (and double it because many of them go uncredited) props, wardrobe, make-up and prosthetics, equipment, film, orchestra, etc.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

To add to what has already been written:

• Special effects budgets were saved for big, epic episodes. There were long stretches of bottle shows where nothing happened in space.
• Sometimes they used off the shelf products. The Klingon ships that blew up in Way of the Warrior were AMT models stuffed with fireworks and confetti.
• The cost of special effects, practical and digital, declined throughout the 90s.
• The Star Trek technical people just got better at what they did.

IMO, the heart of the production was the Promenade.

 

[kkt]

Almost every episode had Odo changing form at least once. But I suppose that comes into the category of just getting better at doing it quickly and efficiently through practice.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

When I talk to Trek fans who don't like DS9 the first word out of their mouths is often 'Ferengi'.

 

[NCC-73515]

I know a few people (my family included) who stopped watching in S1, cause it was just so bad back then. Everyone missed the later seasons that were much better, and then caught up with the whole show on reruns.

 

[at Quark's]

Bad, in what sense? In my personal estimation, DS9 S1 wasn't nearly as cheesy as S1 from TNG, and TNG went on to become a very popular show .... so if I'm going down that lane I'd have to conclude that TNG mostly retained its viewers in the early seasons because there had been no Trek for so long when it came on ...

 

[GuyX]

When I talk to Trek fans who don't like DS9 the first word out of their mouths is often 'Ferengi'.

Wait. What?? Are you serious? The Ferengi are awesome! I love Quark, Rom & especially Nog. They are hilarious. How could someone not like a show because of Ferengi? That’s like saying you don’t like Seinfeld because of George. That just doesn’t compute for me.

As much as I enjoyed TNG, I find it amazing it’s more popular with Trek fans. Then again DS9 is so outside the norm of what Star Trek usually was that I shouldn’t be amazed. There’s no exploring, not really. It’s much more serialized. It has war. Lots of war. All those are the things I love about the show. But again, DS9 has such an insanely deep bench of great characters. None of the other shows can come close. Can you imagine TNG trying an episode like “Take me Out To the Holosuite”? Or even “Trials & Tribulations”? Those episodes work mostly due to the deep roster of characters that you love.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I like a lot of the Ferengi stuff now but hated them when the show first aired.

A lot of the stuff is kind of annoying and slap sticky and a lot of Trek fans just don’t get invested in a bartender fretting over profit.

 

[kkt]

Or they formed their opinion of Ferengi from watching TNG and weren't open to changing their mind.

 

[NCC-73515]

Bad, in what sense? In my personal estimation, DS9 S1 wasn't nearly as cheesy as S1 from TNG, and TNG went on to become a very popular show .... so if I'm going down that lane I'd have to conclude that TNG mostly retained its viewers in the early seasons because there had been no Trek for so long when it came on ...

Boring, lame, not interesting...
TNG S1 at least had interesting ideas and 'felt' more like TOS

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Or they formed their opinion of Ferengi from watching TNG and weren't open to changing their mind.

That only applies to people who quit after seeing them once. The Ferengi are pretty goofy for the tone of Star Trek. No problem with not liking that.

 

[Jayson1]

That only applies to people who quit after seeing them once. The Ferengi are pretty goofy for the tone of Star Trek. No problem with not liking that.

That's true but in season 1 of DS9 the Ferengi characters were still somewhat like the TNG Ferengi. The extra depth they had was a process and maybe not instantly notable at first to some.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Boring, lame, not interesting...
TNG S1 at least had interesting ideas and 'felt' more like TOS

Having two racist and a misogynist episodes does not make for interesting ideas.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That's true but in season 1 of DS9 the Ferengi characters were still somewhat like the TNG Ferengi. The extra depth they had was a process and maybe not instantly notable at first to some.

Even after the first season, only Quark's immediate family ever move away from that portrayal. Zek and Brunt never do. And even when you get a more nuanced portrayal, Rom is always running around screaming and his normal voice is a comic dumb guy voice. Ferengi episodes have people smacking each other on the head and running around panicking.

And generally the jeopardy in a Ferengi episode isn't life or death, win the war, save lives and escape destruction, it's 'Oh no we might not make money!'

I like the way the show analyzes their culture and Quark's repartee with his Starfleet friends and Odo, and the arcs of Rom and Nog. But it's definitely not for everyone. Especially people who want Trek to be space adventures and don't like the introspective fictional cultural analysis stuff.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Rom is always running around screaming and his normal voice is a comic dumb guy voice

Rom abandons the social and economic model of his culture, integrates into another, and adapts to marriage in a less patriarchal system. Those behavioral changes are far more important than the sound of his voice.

 

[fireproof78]

After watching it, it shocks me DS9 wasn’t more popular.

Simple-it wasn't what had been expected. TNG had largely garnered success in syndication, which doesn't support a serialized storytelling format. Certainly the idea of being on a space station doesn't appeal to many who are used to a franchise with giant starships flying at them on the screen as part of the opening. It also was willing to do something that didn't happen a lot on TNG-have conflict between the main cast. It was a step outside of the TNG status quo.

 

[MacLeod]

Boring, lame, not interesting...
TNG S1 at least had interesting ideas and 'felt' more like TOS

Out of curiosity what from S1 of TNG do you consider "Interesting ideas"?

The parasitic aliens from "Conspiracy" hinted at in "Coming of Age"?




Sure in some respects it was TOS like, yet it wasn't until S3 when TNG was confident enough to do it's own thing. For TOS like you could have god like alien(s) decide humanity is a dangerous barbaric race until shown otherwise.

 

[dupersuper]

Having two racist and a misogynist episodes does not make for interesting ideas.

I'm guessing Code of Honor, Angel One and......?