I watched that SNL sketch where the TOS Enterprise was turned into a rotating seafood restaurant. Trust me, they used money.
What was "The Burn" and what caused it?
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
The fact that dilithium is as rare as we now know it is and the Fed uses it kind of blows all of Starfleet's "We don't use money" claims out of the water. It's now more an "exact words" claim where they technically don't use cash or gold but instead use dilithium as their valued substance of currency.
Not sure what Starfleets position on money in the 23rd/24th Century would have on the 32nd Century.
I assume dilithium was easily manufactured in the 23rd/24th centuries, so this would still be the case in the 32nd. So it either wasn't ever really easily manufactured because then it would still be manufactured easily now. And if it can still be manufactured now, why isn't everyone manufacturing it more and then studying its explosions in controlled lab settings?
Indeed. Economics would change with the times, and behaviors to match. So, not sure why there couldn't be changes?
Credits of some kind obviously existed in the 23rd century, at least for civilian transactions within Federation borders. I think the only safe assumption is that money in the 20th and 21st century sense of the word doesn't exist on Earth and isn't used by humans in the TOS Era and beyond, but other than that the entire subject is up for grabs.
That's sort of what I said, that it's starting to feel like an "exact words" kind of thing.
And from Picard, although it wasn't outright stated, it does feel that the claims of "eradicating poverty" amount to nothing more than ensuring everyone has a replicator for food and clothing and a roof to live under, even if that home is trailer sized.
I hate to keep harping on this, but not everybody HAS a damn replicator.
Picard should know that better than anyone, 'cause his own BROTHER was one of those people!
I don't see the issue. Providing the basic needs doesn't require large spaces.
^ Depends on whether it's possible to agree on a universal definition of "basic needs", which I'm not convinced there is.
It's like the old propaganda used to say - "to each according to their need, from each according to their ability". On the surface, that seems like a laudable enough goal, but it begs the question... who or what determines what 'need' or 'ability' even ARE? The government? Because we've seen how that can go.
It's like the old propaganda used to say - "to each according to their need, from each according to their ability". On the surface, that seems like a laudable enough goal, but it begs the question... who or what determines what 'need' or 'ability' even ARE? The government? Because we've seen how that can go.
We really shouldn't give much credence to Raffi's living conditions, considering she went off the grid intentionally. I'm pretty sure she could've been given a nice apartment or maybe even a plot on a new colony if she actually wanted to apply for it. After all, Dahj was, at least outwardly, a college student in her early twenties and had a quite nice place in central Boston all for herself.
Pretty sure Robert chose not to have a replicator. He was a luddite like Owo's family.
Raffi's place didn't look that bad. Sure, it was way out in the middle of nowhere, but Raffi's attitude suggests that was by her own choosing...
In any case, while replicators may provide a lot, LAND is one thing they can't give. So who decides who gets to live where? The State?
Exactly. So who or what compensated Robert and his family for the work they did? That's what nobody seems to have an answer for.
In any case, while replicators may provide a lot, LAND is one thing they can't give. So who decides who gets to live where? The State?
Exactly. So who or what compensated Robert and his family for the work they did? That's what nobody seems to have an answer for.
Robert and his family were living on the luxurious Chateau Picard that Raffi was still envious of as of 2399. What more did Robert want? He wasn't exactly the traveling type. And it's implied he wasn't even into 24th century fire safety procedures, costing his life and Rene's. He was in the winemaking business because family tradition and honor and all that.
That's all "eradicating poverty" should entail, well that and healthcare. Anything beyond that is gained by how much you are "bettering humanity". The question here is how does that work/is measured?
First, Federation Credits are a thing that exists and so "No money" must mean no cash (R.I.P. anonymous transactions, just use latinum for this). I've been mulling over an idea that society functions on a Patreon like system where you don't keep any of your Universal Basic Income, you must distribute it all to other people who you think are "bettering humanity", but in actuality it just means you are subscribing to every "service" you might need. Some of these might be sent to general Artist Guilds or Home Maintenance Collectives, since you won't need a Stained Glass Window or plumbing services all the time. But if you are a fan of a particular artist you can "subscribe" to them directly, that will put you on their shortlist if you want an original. So if you like Chateau Picard Wine and want to drink it regularly, or perhaps you just want to support the tradition of wine making, you give them some portion of your UBI. Basically, this money can't be saved and must be passed on.
Any incoming Credits, given to you for your "contributions to humanity" go in a different pot and can be saved or spent just like money today. And you'd mostly use this to pay for things you aren't subscribed to. This is how you upgrade your living conditions. A furniture maker with a following can upgrade to his own workshop and stop using the local community maker space.
Anyway, I haven't worked out all the bugs of this yet, but I'm working on it.
I think that by Robert Picard’s time, you made wine as a craft, not for profit.
Maybe its like social currency that China is experimenting with?
I can see the connections, but you'd want to keep the government as far away from this sort of system as possible or you risk creating a dystopia. I'm thinking this would be a positive only system, no "downvotes", like we see in that Orville episode.
