What was "The Burn" and what caused it?
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
I thought "The Burn" began when DISCOVERY kept getting renewed despite the Youtube Crowd crowing otherwise?
The Burn is that there's going to be a season 4
What if "the Burn" hasn't something to do with the Omega particle or the events of "Force of Nature" but is related to the struggle between the Prophets and Pah Wraiths?
Whenever i think about this issue, a picture of the Fire Caves and the fight between Sisko and Dukat comes to my mind...
Whenever i think about this issue, a picture of the Fire Caves and the fight between Sisko and Dukat comes to my mind...
The clue is in the word "burn"
From DS9 The Reckoning--
Winn: Shabren's Fifth Prophecy. The rebirth. If the Evil One is destroyed, it will bring a thousand years of peace. The Golden Age of Bajor.
Discovery takes place roughly a thousand years after DS9. Also, while the 32nd century is suffering the burn, it had to have happened within the past 100 years of the 32nd century as Daniels was still in a technologically advanced and prosperous Federation in the 31st century in Enterprise. So the "Burn" would have come after the "thousand years of peace" mentioned in DS9.
From DS9 series finale--
Dukat: Did you really think the Pah wraiths would choose you to be their Emissary? Soon the Pah wraiths will burn across Bajor, the Celestial Temple, the Alpha Quadrant.
Sounds quite similar to the burn in Discovery to me. However, the same episode also had Sisko's prophet mother say the wraiths couldn't ever be released again. So if the burn is connected to them, it's unclear how they would have got out.
Maybe the Bajorans go on a jihad like in Dune
Yeah and as i mentioned on Reddit, another hint for this might be that the new combadges kinda look bajoran imo. And now that i think about it, the involvement of the Trill (and possibly a new Dax host)...
My theory for how the Wraiths might have gotten out is that the end result of the temporal cold war might have gotten them a loophole.
The Prophets as well as the Pah Wraiths both have a special relationship with time...
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Actually, it began 'burning' with the announcement of Season 2 and has 'burned' hotter with each successive season.
With Season 4 in the making, it's become a raging 'Inferno' for them.
The red angel being an Iconian would have been infinitely preferable to the almost incomprehensible mess we got as an explanation. Was it Burnham? Was it Burnham's mother? Which appearance was which person? What we got was very confusing.
They showed Burnham's entire journey in the finale, so the one's mot a part of that were her mother.
Didn't she do all of them? I don't have time to rewatch at the moment but.........
In the season finale, “Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2” we’ve learned that Michael Burnham herself set all seven red signals. The first five guided the USS Discovery to the following places: an interstellar asteroid, Terralysium, Kaminar, Boreth, and Xahea. The sixth signal helped guide Discovery through the wormhole into the future, and the seventh signal Burnham sent back through the wormhole to let Spock and Pike know the ship had made it. H/T Den of Geek
This stems from S2 having two sets of writers. The second set simply fumbled the premise.
The original Seven Signs were all across the galaxy. The places Burnham Jr visited were all clustered at a single spot, save for New Eden where she supposedly ignited one Sign to inform Spock (and Control!) that the escape had been a success (and thus a failure, because now Control knows, too...). But she did that New Eden Sign so that it flared up months after the one that initially lured the heroes to New Eden.
More damningly, the heroes get this nice map of Seven Signs - but, save for the Hiawatha, they have no idea where the Signs will next appear! The map, according to the second set of writers, is utterly worthless to the heroes. Yet every Sign that Michael Burnham did was worthwhile, even if retroactively. Michael's Signs simply aren't the Signs on that map.
There were at least 14 Signs - the map ones, and the Michael ones. Of these, perhaps two overlap, that is, in just two cases the Michael ones might actually be the map ones. Only some of these Signs are used for luring people to locations; others never get visited, or never were intended to be visited, and we're left wondering why they would have to be Signs, then. OTOH, Gabrielle visited hundreds of locations, obviously mostly without Signing anything, so traveling to X,Y,Z at time T clearly doesn't necessitate doing a Sign.
It's simply an incoherent mess where either Momma B is lying, or there's a third Angel out there, or one of the Burnhams will do additional Signs after the ones we witnessed ("after" from their personal viewpoints at the timeline, that is).
Timo Saloniemi
The original Seven Signs were all across the galaxy. The places Burnham Jr visited were all clustered at a single spot, save for New Eden where she supposedly ignited one Sign to inform Spock (and Control!) that the escape had been a success (and thus a failure, because now Control knows, too...). But she did that New Eden Sign so that it flared up months after the one that initially lured the heroes to New Eden.
More damningly, the heroes get this nice map of Seven Signs - but, save for the Hiawatha, they have no idea where the Signs will next appear! The map, according to the second set of writers, is utterly worthless to the heroes. Yet every Sign that Michael Burnham did was worthwhile, even if retroactively. Michael's Signs simply aren't the Signs on that map.
There were at least 14 Signs - the map ones, and the Michael ones. Of these, perhaps two overlap, that is, in just two cases the Michael ones might actually be the map ones. Only some of these Signs are used for luring people to locations; others never get visited, or never were intended to be visited, and we're left wondering why they would have to be Signs, then. OTOH, Gabrielle visited hundreds of locations, obviously mostly without Signing anything, so traveling to X,Y,Z at time T clearly doesn't necessitate doing a Sign.
It's simply an incoherent mess where either Momma B is lying, or there's a third Angel out there, or one of the Burnhams will do additional Signs after the ones we witnessed ("after" from their personal viewpoints at the timeline, that is).
Timo Saloniemi
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Seemed straight forward enough to me. The Red Angel sightings we see throughout the season were all Michael, as explicitly spelled out in the finale. It was Momma Burnham who visited the church on 21st century Earth and transported it to New Eden, who explicitly stated so when we see her logs about her experiences. The only one which isn't explicitly stated is which one appeared to Spock and gave him the vision of the apocalyptic future, though that's heavily implied to be Momma Burnham,
But as said, nobody knows who did the original Seven Signs, and why. They are explicitly not the ones Michael makes, because the heroes could not identify those on the Map of Seven.
They are not the Michael-made signs for a number of other equally explicit reasons, too - say, there could not have been a Sign over Boreth until the relevant episode, or Klingons would have raised literal holy hell. The dichotomy of two sets of writers can be seen especially clearly here: in "New Eden", an inhabitant of Terralysium quite explicitly refers to there having been a Red Sign on the sky before the heroes arrived in wake of another such Sign, while in the rest of the episodes, the possibility of there already having been a Red Sign at a location before the adventure takes the heroes there is equally explicitly excluded.
Not only did the writers screw up royally in describing the Signs from two completely different premises, they made matters much worse in the finale which explained very little and created all-new contradictions. The saving grace here is that time travel is innately messy: Gabrielle could have made dozens if not thousands of Signs by accident or error before getting it right, and Michael might have misfired a couple of times as well.
The very premise of the premise is inane, though: in "Brother", the heroes feel that the Signs are tremendously important, but in subsequent episodes nobody seems in any way moved by them, and of course nothing the heroes do has any effect on how anybody else would perceive the Signs because they take their secret to their make-believe grave. The Seven Signs achieved nothing at all, and were unnecessary even in putting the events to motion - the one at the Hiawatha wreck would have more than sufficed.
(Also, if the Signs were so impressive, how come none of our Discovery heroes saw them, or knew about them before Connolly told them? Why would Pike's crew enjoy a better vantage point than Saru's?)
But, hey, time travel - the ultimate excuse for not having a season make sense. There's a timeline of events there, with Control trying to murder Spock months before it should feel in any way threatened by Spock, but since time travel puts a knot or fifty in that line, it's all right.
Timo Saloniemi
They are not the Michael-made signs for a number of other equally explicit reasons, too - say, there could not have been a Sign over Boreth until the relevant episode, or Klingons would have raised literal holy hell. The dichotomy of two sets of writers can be seen especially clearly here: in "New Eden", an inhabitant of Terralysium quite explicitly refers to there having been a Red Sign on the sky before the heroes arrived in wake of another such Sign, while in the rest of the episodes, the possibility of there already having been a Red Sign at a location before the adventure takes the heroes there is equally explicitly excluded.
Not only did the writers screw up royally in describing the Signs from two completely different premises, they made matters much worse in the finale which explained very little and created all-new contradictions. The saving grace here is that time travel is innately messy: Gabrielle could have made dozens if not thousands of Signs by accident or error before getting it right, and Michael might have misfired a couple of times as well.
The very premise of the premise is inane, though: in "Brother", the heroes feel that the Signs are tremendously important, but in subsequent episodes nobody seems in any way moved by them, and of course nothing the heroes do has any effect on how anybody else would perceive the Signs because they take their secret to their make-believe grave. The Seven Signs achieved nothing at all, and were unnecessary even in putting the events to motion - the one at the Hiawatha wreck would have more than sufficed.
(Also, if the Signs were so impressive, how come none of our Discovery heroes saw them, or knew about them before Connolly told them? Why would Pike's crew enjoy a better vantage point than Saru's?)
But, hey, time travel - the ultimate excuse for not having a season make sense. There's a timeline of events there, with Control trying to murder Spock months before it should feel in any way threatened by Spock, but since time travel puts a knot or fifty in that line, it's all right.
Timo Saloniemi
@Timo articulated the problems with the red angel storyline much better than I could.
The Burn = Burnham
