We don't actually know for sure that old Spock, the very powerful Romulan ship, the Supernova etc. actually came from/ occured in the "prime" universe... we're just presuming it wasn't a tertiary universe, totally unrelated to the reality we've seen in TOS etc.
What was canonized in the Prime U from XI?
- Thread starter Captain59
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That was actually one of the things I always disliked most about TNG: its radical expansion (and IMHO misinterpretation) of the Prime Directive. Allowing other cultures the self-determination to develop in their own directions is one thing. Allowing them to go extinct due to forces outside their control is quite another, and simply can't be justified by the same moral calculus.And on your PD comment. The Enterprise-C warped in and saved Klingons ships from being destroyed without asking permission. Look what happened with that.
...If the disaster had been limited to the Romulan star system and the Romulans had not asked for help, the Federation would be bound by the Prime Directive. We have seen the Federation leave races to die before. It's not their place to choose who lives and dies.
Humanitarian aid shouldn't be prohibited as "interference," unless one believes there's a higher destiny driving such disasters that shouldn't be defied... which actually flies right in the face of the whole self-determination ethos.
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On the topic of the thread, though...
Yeah, everything about the Kelvin fits into "Prime" continuity, except for the circumstances of its destruction and Kirk's birth. (This would unfortunately appear to include the fact that its crew complement was 800+, which I can't begin to account for given what we know of pre-TOS history.)
(I noticed with some interest that the movie didn't actually call Kirk's mother by name... is there any canonical reference for it being "Winona," or is that still fanon?)
Likewise, the circumstances of Romulus' destruction c. 2387 go in. The tricky thing there, if one is being super-strict about "canon," is whether the additional details of those circumstances from Countdown go in, since they were technically revealed in a "licensed" story.
Just speaking for myself, but I'm perfectly happy to accept "Nyota" and McCoy's divorce as "grandfathered in." Even though strictly speaking we've only confirmed them as valid in nuTrek, they're consistent with longstanding assumptions about the original universe, and were obviously based on same by the writers, not dreamed up from scratch.
(Someone posted elsewhere that "Nyota" was also used in STV:TFF, which would resolve that issue, but I haven't seen it recently and can't confirm.)
We really need an FAQ here. The timeline was one and the same until the Narada arrived. The Narada had nothing to do with the placement of George on the Kelvin, the fact that the Kelvin was built, or the naming of Jim Kirk's grandfathers. The writers have outright said that, and even the movie points out the alternate universe discrepancy, saving viewers the trouble.
The funny thing is, the real Davros would understand all that and brush it off as mere child's play.
A deflector moves particles out of the way before they can hit the ship.
I guess my question is this:
Was the Kelvin sent to that location because of the lighting storm or was it just in the area when it happend.
It matters, because if the Kelvin was sent to that location because of the storm, the split in the universe would be much earlier then if the Kelvin was just in the area.
Too bad they didn't put the storm in a Davros sector, that would have been funny.
Was the Kelvin sent to that location because of the lighting storm or was it just in the area when it happend.
It matters, because if the Kelvin was sent to that location because of the storm, the split in the universe would be much earlier then if the Kelvin was just in the area.
Too bad they didn't put the storm in a Davros sector, that would have been funny.
Explain to me why the very-much-canon Miranda class has no deflector dish.
Besides, on top of that, the Kelvin has a TOS-style dish.
You know, that's actually not such a strange idea. We know Spock went in only a short time after Nero, but emerged quite some years later. Perhaps the visible effect (the lightning storm) extends further forward and further back in time then those two points. Perhaps it even moves, in space. Or perhaps it blinks on and off.
Easy, the Miranda has magical powers that take over the job of the deflector dish. Very magical, I tell you.
The latter two are new universe specific. Theres nothing suggesting they were the same in the prime universe. As for the OP, I can think of:-
1) Kirk Snr and his wife serving on the Kelvin
2) A Romulan called Nero born and raised in the 24th Century
3) Riverside Iowa as being where the Kirks are from (assuming they lived
there before their service on the Kelvin)
4) Kirk Snr being a great influence on Shatner Kirk
5) Romulus's destruction in the prime universe
6) Spock retaining the rank of ambassador
The Kelvin has a TMP Style Dish, not a TOS Dish.
Blackholes cause people to time travel? Thats new to the ST scheme of things. They have used planets to time travel, worm holes, but never a black hole.
As for the Kelvins deflector dish, it is at least the refit type or the type found on the Enterprise B. One must this assume that they made an error and we are ment to assume that the dish is actualy a dish and not the concave structure it is.
As for the Kelvins deflector dish, it is at least the refit type or the type found on the Enterprise B. One must this assume that they made an error and we are ment to assume that the dish is actualy a dish and not the concave structure it is.
well unless they recut this film, it doesnt fit into the cannon nor any details. This is all Star Trek 2.0 The Bastard Child of Trek nothing more
As if they can't be the same. My mobile phone doesn't look like yours, I'm sure.
Err, no, its dish sticks out of the secondary hul and is equipped with an antenna spire, both of which is TOS/ENT style. It's not built within the vessel like the Refit Constitution did.
http://boldlygo.intel.com/content/index.html
Wait for the page to load, then go to the Kelvin on the right. It's an interactive display that allows you to maneuver the Kelvin for a better look. While the dish appears to be TMP from the front, on the sides you can actually see the TOS influences like the spire and its separation from the hull.
The movie seems less clear to me. What we know from the movie is, the kelvin sent some data to star fleet, Star fleet thinks the data is odd and can't be real. The Kelvin sends back saying that it.is very real.
That dosnt really tell us if Star Fleet knew about it before hand.
What I'm going to assume is that the storm just occured and the Kelvin noticed it and went in closer. We can tell it is getting bigger and larger as the kelvin is getting closer. Thus lets assume, they were in the are pcked the think up on gravidar and went in for a closer look.
The other question then becomes, to what degree does this event place events in the prime line under question. If in 3 minutes of movie time spock is 28 years late, then the prime line is actually changed 28 years in its own past as well.
If we assume that, then the entire Kelvin line could come into question. Maybe something happend in the brief amount of time between the narada going through and the formaton that caused widespread changes.
We didn't see it, but its something to consider.
I'd have been happy just to hear the anomoly in the Davros sector and that John DeLance was on ship. saying suck it federation, this ends now... blink....and the kelvin shows up
they can't be the same.
Look @ NX-01 TOS style Dish.
Look at all consititon class ships TOS Style Dish.
given the Kelvin was active in 2233 it predates Durotronics even, and at launch the Consitition class in the real timeline was the most advanced ship in the fleet, and the USS Consititon wasn't active till the 2240's so that makes the Kelvin bases around older technology, that means the dish wouldn't be TMP Style, it should look like the dish aboard the NCC-1701 from the real timeline. I'm guessing you havnt taken any time to actully learn about the tech ect behind star trek.
Not to mention explain the L'Cars style interface or the bridge design, if this is the break in prime it shouldnt look that way at all. I have a thousand gripes just about this one ship
The fact they never bother to explain why LCARS has been around for years I find very interesting. At somepoint they must have found that the LCARS interface was efficient enough to keep around for the long haul.
yes but the first version we find was an early looking on in 2285 aboard the Excelscior, and we didnt see a version that we recognized untill The Final Frontier, that was in 2287, now ok maybe it came early in this new universe, fine, but would it have come into a ship in 2233 during the time line alteration?
that bridge should have been cramped, and had a bunch of little blinking lights and thousands of buttons.
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