What ships SHOULD they have used in the Dominion War?

[CaptChris42]

I think that number was from the novelization of First Contact about the Federation fleet that intercepted the second Borg cube heading for Earth. The fleet managed to keep at the Cube all the way from the Typhon sector to Earth with Word and the USS Defiant engaged until the arrival of the USS Enterprise-E.

That battle was just months before the start of the Dominion War

Yes, circa November 2373 by most stardate estimates.
It's a long time since I read the novelization, but does seem credible. Only dozens of ships are seen at Earth itself onscreen, though.

As for USS Springfield NCC-1963, a Miranda or Soyuz-class seems highly likely. Kongo came from one of the list of unused Constitution-class names. And all ships on the Operation Retrieve chart have a Constitution-class logo (sans Excelsior, that is) - though as unused footage.
Helin makes sense by name as an Oberth (an astronomer) but only slightly less so by registry.

Plus TOS was in a period where numbers just might get reused too, alongside names...

 

[Dukhat]

As for USS Springfield NCC-1963, a Miranda or Soyuz-class seems highly likely.

The Soyuz class was decommissioned way before the events of TUC.

Kongo came from one of the list of unused Constitution-class names. And all ships on the Operation Retrieve chart have a Constitution-class logo (sans Excelsior, that is) - though as unused footage.
Helin makes sense by name as an Oberth (an astronomer) but only slightly less so by registry.

Plus TOS was in a period where numbers just might get reused too, alongside names...

If I had to guess, I would assume that all the ships on that list (with the exception of the Constellation, Excelsior, Oberth and Lantree) were supposed to be Constitution class. I suppose there's a possibility that the Challenger, Korolev and Ahwahnee might be Excelsiors due to their 2XXX registries, but we don't know that for sure. The Jenolan NCC-2010 sure wasn't.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

We mustn't forget the USS Lollipop. It's a good ship.

 

[Tim Walker]

an increase in support ship construction following Wolf 359 and the lead-in to the Dominion War using the older California-class as a faster to construct vessel over the newer Parliament-class

Yes, time constraints may have forced this, with the Cali being the last, sizable support vessel constructed before all out war.

I imagine that during the war the only support vessels constructed would be the Phoenix class, as medical/search-and-rescue ships.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I imagine that during the war the only support vessels constructed would be the Phoenix class, as medical/search-and-rescue ships.

Not necessarily only, but I could see them being a mainstay of the support fleet during the era.

 

[CaptainVarley]

I personally would have loved if the DS9 VFX personnel had had the time and budget to create a bunch of new starship designs that were contemporary to the TNG era, both Starfleet and Klingon. That at least would have made it look like they had a fighting chance against the Dominion.

I don't need to see new ships, I'd be fine seeing Miranda or Excelsior class ships engaging Dominion ships to see how they fared. We saw little outside of major battles and the Defiant taking on Dominion warships. I don't agree with a lot of people with Starfleet having dozens of different ships in the fleet. It's just not very efficient when it comes to ship building. Maybe a some one off designs here or there with the core fleet being a handful of design.

If there wasn't a budget, I'd love all the core TNG + movie era ships full physical and digitally modeled out with bridge sets for all those ships. I want to see more instances of other bridge crews like we saw of the Odyssey.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Spoiler: Retro Badger Gaming - Federation StarShips VS Cardassian Weapons Platform

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Even if StarFleet Ships were properly portrayed with working shields, the Cardassian Weapons Platform are no slouch.

Even against tougher ships like the Galaxy Class w/ Working Shields.

Look at how much effort it takes a Dominion Era StarFleet Ship to fight off those damn Cardassian Weapons Platform.

 

[farragut79]

I don't need to see new ships, I'd be fine seeing Miranda or Excelsior class ships engaging Dominion ships to see how they fared. We saw little outside of major battles and the Defiant taking on Dominion warships. I don't agree with a lot of people with Starfleet having dozens of different ships in the fleet. It's just not very efficient when it comes to ship building. Maybe a some one off designs here or there with the core fleet being a handful of design.

If there wasn't a budget, I'd love all the core TNG + movie era ships full physical and digitally modeled out with bridge sets for all those ships. I want to see more instances of other bridge crews like we saw of the Odyssey.

I don't mind if there is many different classes especially if several of the ships are from older eras of Starfleet. What would be those classes roles in a fleet?

 

[Tarek71]

There is no reason to believe that Miranda or Excelsior classes or others couldnt be fully modernized and have more than enough firepower to be effective in the 2370s. So of course they would be used in that war.

 

[Tomalak]

There is no reason to believe that Miranda or Excelsior classes or others couldnt be fully modernized and have more than enough firepower to be effective in the 2370s. So of course they would be used in that war.

Which is probably what happened. The Lakota and DS9 were upgraded at the same time, suggesting some kind of retrofitting programme. At the very least their shields were upgraded to withstand Dominion weapons, or the war would have been over very quickly.

 

[Tarek71]

Which is probably what happened. The Lakota and DS9 were upgraded at the same time, suggesting some kind of retrofitting programme. At the very least their shields were upgraded to withstand Dominion weapons, or the war would have been over very quickly.

Yeah. The Lakota fought the Defiant to basically a draw, and Defiant was shown to be able to take out Dominion ships. So presumably It would at least be able to take out Jem Hadar fighters.

 

[Arpy]

There is no reason to believe that Miranda or Excelsior classes or others couldnt be fully modernized and have more than enough firepower to be effective in the 2370s. So of course they would be used in that war.

The only reason we have to believe that they could is that we saw them on screen. They could’ve used a flying Spanish galleon with phasers flying out of the sales and people who would be making the same argument.

 

[Dukhat]

There is no reason to believe that Miranda or Excelsior classes or others couldnt be fully modernized and have more than enough firepower to be effective in the 2370s. So of course they would be used in that war.

Which is probably what happened. The Lakota and DS9 were upgraded at the same time, suggesting some kind of retrofitting programme. At the very least their shields were upgraded to withstand Dominion weapons, or the war would have been over very quickly.

The only reason we have to believe that they could is that we saw them on screen. They could’ve used a flying Spanish Galion with phasers flying out of the sales and people who would be making the same argument.

During TNG, we only saw Excelsiors performing mundane duties like transporting admirals and other officers to the Enterprise. We also only saw Mirandas performing functions like supply ships and science vessels. Hardly top-of-the-line combat vessels. The description of the Lakota’s upgrades implied that it was a recent development, probably mandated by the threat of the Dominion. As we actually saw in the DS9 fleet shots, Starfleet was woefully mismatched, having antiquated Excelsiors and Mirandas making up the bulk of the fleet. So any upgrades for combat were probably recent to the Dominion war. Yeah, there were other wars/battles mentioned in the past such as the Cardassian war, but by TNG there doesn’t seem to be any conflicts necessitating such upgrades. Quite the contrary: Starfleet during the TNG era seemed to focus on exploration rather than combat.

 

[Tomalak]

Yes, my theory would be a hurried refit programme in the year/eighteen months prior to Call to Arms once Starfleet realised the trouble they were in. The Klingon and Borg difficulties will have only added to the urgency.

 

[Tarek71]

Yes, my theory would be a hurried refit programme in the year/eighteen months prior to Call to Arms once Starfleet realised the trouble they were in. The Klingon and Borg difficulties will have only added to the urgency.

Well, you use the ships you have. If suddenly there is a war with massive, major power you may press back into service older ships that have been mothballed or press into combat older ships that are from ship classes that have long since ceased to be front line.

Consider Ukraine. They are willing to put upgraded, decades old T-55's and T-62's into action. They face a bigger, stronger power with massive reserves of their own. Russia has had to rely on older models more when lots of the new models got smoked, leaving them little choice by to raid the long parked, older platforms.

But some 70's designs, like the F-16 would still be effective against MOST adversaries. The recently built and building F-16V is more advanced that an F-16A from the 1970s. The shape is familiar, but this is a significantly improved version.

Just because a ship is shaped like a Miranda doesnt mean it's 80 years old or not a far more capable and advanced version than the ones from the 2280's. Or even if very old, they could be significantly upgraded. In any case, they may be what they had and like it or not it is better than no ship at all.

But real wars involve the possibility of massive losses of new equipment and therefore a need to yes, up production, but also to raid old boneyards for older models. Britain accepted 50 overage destroyers from the US Navy early in the WW2, because they needed more ships, no matter how old they were.

 

[Arpy]

Just because a ship is shaped like a Miranda doesnt mean it's 80 years old or not a far more capable and advanced version than the ones from the 2280's. Or even if very old, they could be significantly upgraded. In any case, they may be what they had and like it or not it is better than no ship at all.

And just because you see Donald Trump as president doesn’t mean he’s not actually a cyborg from the future sent back from a Temporal Cold War but Occam’s Razor suggests he’s not.

Shipyards are cranking out new ships, not antique designs 10x more expensive to match contemporary capabilities.

 

[Tomalak]

I think the point is that those Excelsiors aren't *that* old because a lot of them have NCC-4xxxx numbers which probably mean they were built in the mid-24th century. So maybe 30 years old, and recently upgraded, not antiques. Which is the F-16 comparison.

No one bats an eyelid that the Klingons had canonically been using the same battlecruiser design for over 200 years by that point.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And the B-52 is on track to be a Century old Bomber design that is still in use.

Just because something is old, doesn't mean you can't update it and make it useful.

 

[Tarek71]

And just because you see Donald Trump as president doesn’t mean he’s not actually a cyborg from the future sent back from a Temporal Cold War but Occam’s Razor suggests he’s not.

Shipyards are cranking out new ships, not antique designs 10x more expensive to match contemporary capabilities.

They would be "new" ships if newly constructed. Why not? Your saying that a ship cant be the shape of a Miranda, yet far more capable than the 2280s Reliant. Since we know that an F-16V outclasses an F-16A, Occams Razor doesnt tell us much of anything here. No reason the SHAPE just magically means you cant cram in 24th century tech into it. We know that's wrong from the real world.

 

[Ithekro]

The some of the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers have been in service for over 30 years, yet the last of the Block IIA destroyers are being finished as the first of the Block III destroyers enter service now. The Nimitz-class carriers range from 16 to 50 years old.