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What sci-fi movie was the most insulting to science?

I dunno. I didn't see Red Matter as that much more unbelievable then Proto-Matter in TWOK. And TWOK, from what I can tell, seems to be considered one of the best of the movies.

EDIT: Actually, I should rephrase that. It wasn't just Proto-Matter. It was the whole genesis effect.

No, I don't doubt it. It's the treatment that it got that made it feel more like it came out of a comic book. If the Genesis effect had gotten the same kind of treatment, I'm sure it would have felt like it had come out of comic book, but it didn't. It felt purely sci-fi. It also figured more prominently into the plot of the the next two movies and adding a certain depth, something that the red matter lacked entirely. The red matter on the other hand felt like a comic book superweapon that ended up being in the wrong universe, like maybe Superman or Fantastic Four. It came out feeling like "This is red matter. It will destroy Vulcan. Blammo!" I'm sure if the red matter would have had the same amount of detail and depth that Genesis got, it wouldn't have come off feeling so hokey.

Oh and well said about Jurassic Park, Christopher. Couldn't have said it any better.
 
The red matter made just as much scientific sense as the so-called "Genesis wave." If one "does not compute" neither does the other.

Is there, in fact, any good science in TWOK? Exploding planets, ships hitting the edge of a nebula with a "bump!"....
I've always looked at the Genesis Effect as being akin to a transporter. Changing barren rock to fertile soil would be simple with such a machine but showing the technology's full capabilities would have given the characters godlike powers. Or rather another set of them. Why put on make-up and fake ears to disguise yourself as a Romulan when the transporter can turn you into one.

I found plenty of things to object to in ST09 but red matter wasn't one of them. The concept's not terribly different from strange or quark matter, though it turned Vulcan into a black hole rather than simply more of itself.
 
I dunno, instant life (a planet and lifeforms!!!) from nothing sounds pretty comicbook to me. As does rapidly aging regenerated Spock.
 
I've always looked at the Genesis Effect as being akin to a transporter. Changing barren rock to fertile soil would be simple with such a machine but showing the technology's full capabilities would have given the characters godlike powers. Or rather another set of them. Why put on make-up and fake ears to disguise yourself as a Romulan when the transporter can turn you into one.

Exactly so. The transporter itself is an example of nonsense science and the way in which Trek employs it is, as you note, ridiculous.

I dunno, instant life (a planet and lifeforms!!!) from nothing sounds pretty comicbook to me. As does rapidly aging regenerated Spock.

Yep. Sheerest fantasy dressed up with some jargon.
 
I dunno, instant life (a planet and lifeforms!!!) from nothing sounds pretty comicbook to me. As does rapidly aging regenerated Spock.


Like I said, all in the way the concept is treated. If it's too simplified, then it ends up feeling like things came out of a comic book.
 
From a practical standpoint, showing the raptors as plausibly feathered would have been nearly impossible in 1993. Jurassic Park pushed then-current CGI to its limits modeling life-like skin and scales. With the uncertainty about the evolutionary relationship and the effects limitations, it's no wonder Spielberg portrayed the dinosaurs in a more traditional fashion.

No, it's simply that at the time, the notion that theropods were feathered was not yet accepted in paleontological circles. As I've said, the science has advanced a great deal since that movie was made. Look at Walking with Dinosaurs, which was made in 1999 and depicted dinosaurs as accurately as was possible at the time. Its theropods weren't feathered either. It's only in the past decade or less that the notion of feathered theropods has become widely accepted.

And of course most of the dinosaur effects in JP were done live with animatronics courtesy of Stan Winston, since the movie's effects were planned with the assumption that stop-motion would be used for the rest and Spielberg wanted to keep its use to a minimum. So the amount of CGI in the film tends to be overestimated. It was used only for full-length shots, shots of the dinosaurs running or jumping, and the like.


I wouldn't really know, but I would imagine there'd be some kind of effect passing from a vacuum into a cloud of dust and gas. Could it be dense enough to exert some kind of drag on the ship?

Real nebulae are vacuum by our standards. The density of your typical nebula is lower than the density of the solar wind around the Earth. The dense, opaque nebulae featured in Trek and other mass-media SF are as imaginary as the dense, cluttered asteroid fields we so often see in movies and TV. (At least, so far as we know. I've had the thought that, given that there's evidence that brown dwarfs and rogue planets can form independently, it follows that there may well be atypically small clouds of nebular matter from which those things would condense. And due to their low overall mass, they'd condense rather slowly and thus could retain a density comparable to what we see in TV and movies for an astronomically significant length of time. In my TNG novel The Buried Age, I used these conjectural "micronebulae" as a justification for the anomalously small, dense nebulae seen in Trek.)


I've always looked at the Genesis Effect as being akin to a transporter. Changing barren rock to fertile soil would be simple with such a machine but showing the technology's full capabilities would have given the characters godlike powers.

I've had the same thought, that Genesis is an extension of transporters and replicators, but where it falls apart is the sheer scale of it. It would take a vast amount of power and probably a very large device to make it happen. I read the novelization of TWOK before I saw the movie, and I imagined the Genesis torpedo as a massive missile. When I went to the movie and saw that it was this skinny little 5-foot-long gizmo, I scoffed at the idea that something so tiny could transform an entire planet, let alone create one.
 
I thought a black hole has no size as it's a singularity.

Whenever anyone talks about "the size of the black hole" in a movie or show, I just mentally substitute "the area of the black hole's event horizon" or "the mass of the black hole", both of which are meaningful indications of magnitude.

I simply replace 'black hole' with 'wormhole'. The latter definition is less concrete, and therefore easier to use in film.
 
I dunno, instant life (a planet and lifeforms!!!) from nothing sounds pretty comicbook to me. As does rapidly aging regenerated Spock.


Like I said, all in the way the concept is treated. If it's too simplified, then it ends up feeling like things came out of a comic book.
Again, I'd say the treatment in all three film of the "Genesis Trilogy" is comic booky. It may have generated some "drama" (Spocks death, the destruction of the E, Spocks rebirth and David's death) but its still comic book. Similarly the Red matter gave us the destruction of Vulcan and Amanda's death. And is related to Kirk's birth and G. Kirks death. (one of the best bits of the film)
 
Again, I'd say the treatment in all three film of the "Genesis Trilogy" is comic booky. It may have generated some "drama" (Spocks death, the destruction of the E, Spocks rebirth and David's death) but its still comic book. Similarly the Red matter gave us the destruction of Vulcan and Amanda's death. And is related to Kirk's birth and G. Kirks death. (one of the best bits of the film)

Exactly so. "Instant life, including a planet, lifeforms and a star" is simplistic and silly in conception. There is no "sophisticated treatment" of it that could make it other than silly, and we certainly didn't see such an attempt in TWOK.
 
2012 was a fun movie but was a giant slap to any real science ;). Armageddon was the same as well, alot of fun but absurd.
 
Contact - Why would the aliens waste the time to contact us and send plans to build the wormhole ship if they had no plans to send any proof back? Why didn't they just send back a few videos of their world and say hello and be done with it instead of us wasting money and lives building the thing just so we could see Ellie fall through the spinning hoops for a few seconds.
 
I loved this movie. The question I got is why don't the aliens just ask if they can use our sea water. It aint like we really use it. I'm sure we have more than enough to share with them.
 
I loved this movie. The question I got is why don't the aliens just ask if they can use our sea water. It aint like we really use it. I'm sure we have more than enough to share with them.

We are transposing our own Mo onto aliens. When the European powers discovered the new world, they sure as hell didn't want to share the new world resources with the indigenous people. Since that is all we know from our history, why would we expect anyone else to act differently?
 
Contact - Why would the aliens waste the time to contact us and send plans to build the wormhole ship if they had no plans to send any proof back? Why didn't they just send back a few videos of their world and say hello and be done with it instead of us wasting money and lives building the thing just so we could see Ellie fall through the spinning hoops for a few seconds.

*** !!! SPOILER WARNING !!! ***

OK. My belief is that the whole thing is a cultural maturity test. The standards by which the first astronaut is chosen are medieval at best. The religious zealot destroys the first machine. Ellie is persecuted after coming back. By its own actions, humanity proves, as in their wisdom the aliens had no doubt, that it is not ready for greater contact. By what the alien said, it seems normal for the young species involved in first contact not to be ready. If humanity can someday pass the test, by becoming more mature, the aliens will proceed to the next level.

And as to it being a waste of time? You forget the 18 hours of static. It was most real in Ellie's time frame.

Sorry, i have to disagree. I think it's a pretty good film.
 
Contact - Why would the aliens waste the time to contact us and send plans to build the wormhole ship if they had no plans to send any proof back? Why didn't they just send back a few videos of their world and say hello and be done with it instead of us wasting money and lives building the thing just so we could see Ellie fall through the spinning hoops for a few seconds.

Because they weren't doing it just for our benefit. At least in the book, they were doing it so they could learn about us. They were "galactic census takers," as they described themselves, and they'd been studying us through our broadcasts, but there was a lot they felt they couldn't learn without more direct contact. And sending us the message and requiring us to figure it out in order to reach them was a test of our intelligence.

And in the book, they did provide proof of a sort: they told Ellie about a discovery they'd made, and that prompted Ellie to search for it herself and eventually find it.

Anyway, it's bizarre to see Contact mentioned in a thread about movies with bad science. Contact is one of the most rigorous hard-SF movies ever made, based on a very rigorous hard-SF novel. In fact, when Carl Sagan asked Kip Thorne to devise a scientifically plausible method of FTL travel for the book, it led Thorne to investigate what was then the fairly obscure concept of wormholes, which had been theorized by Einstein et al. but rarely examined in depth, and Thorne's work opened up a whole new field of theoretical physics -- all because of a science fiction novel. Contact is a classic example of the way science and hard SF inspire one another. And the movie, though it changed and trimmed down a great deal of the story, was very faithful to its scientific content, aside from a few minor bits of poetic license. To quote Phil Plait's review from his Bad Astronomy website:
``Contact'' stands out from almost every other science fiction movie ever made in that it went to great pains to be accurate. Almost all of the plotline is based on either solid physics, or extrapolated from current theories. Some of the astronomers were slightly exaggerate in character, but it's safe to say that every stereotype depicted in the movie has seen its moment in real live astronomers.
...
Those of you familiar with my reviews know that I take a dim view of science errors in movies. However, I loved ``Contact'' and so I am willing to give it more leeway... because to went to such lengths to be accurate. While there are some errors in it, most are small, and some of the parts it got right are so amazing that I am astonished at the level of detail
 
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And in the book, they did provide proof of a sort: they told Ellie about a discovery they'd made, and that prompted Ellie to search for it herself and eventually find it.

This was not in the movie. The only proof beyond Ellie's subjective experience, which she could not share except by communicating about it, was the static I mentioned.
 
I know it's not in the movie. But the book provides context for a fuller understanding of the movie's intent. Besides, the book is so much better and richer than the movie, even though it's a good movie. I can't recommend it strongly enough.

Anyway, questioning the aliens' motives in the film constitutes a complaint about plot or character motivation, not about the science of the film. So it's not an objection that fits the topic.
 
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