What Picard Said in Nemesis

[All Seeing Eye]

It just dawned on me about a line that Picard says in Nemesis.

Troi is in sick bay having just suffered a mind rape from Shinzon and his Viceroy. She's basically been raped sexually via the mind. This term is the correct term to use as that is what happened.

What does Picard say? he asks her to "endure more of these attacks". It's the scene where he says that line and then is beamed to the Scimitar.

I mean seriously, who the hell put that line in the movie? Picard wants Troi to endure further mental/sexual rape? That's not the Captain Picard I grew to know.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Maybe its his Irumodic Syndrome acting up. Picard needs to retire before he loses all his marbles.

 

[Alrik]

Just another glowing example of how much of a train wreck this movie was.

 

[David cgc]

This might have a little more bite if Picard hadn't asked the entire crew to endure horrific death (or a fate worse than death) when it wouldn't even have done the slightest good for anyone two movies earlier. Sure, if he's pissed off at the Borg, it's okay, but when he expresses confidence in his highly trained telepath and her ability to handle some punk kid with a boner, he's suddenly the king asshole.

 

[KingstonTrekker]

I remember watching Nemesis in the theatre and cringing when Picard said this line. A lady sitting behind me gasped and left the theatre.

It was a horrible line.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

but when he expresses confidence in his highly trained telepath and her ability to handle some punk kid with a boner, he's suddenly the king asshole.

It was the Reman viceroy she was being attacked by, he was the telepath and she was unable to stop his attack.

 

[ManaByte]

It makes more sense when you realize Troi was attacked twice prior to that line. The second one was cut out.

And yes, it's best to forget Nemesis. If you read Brent Spiner's Twitter it seems like even he has erased it from his memory.

 

[noknowes]

It just dawned on me about a line that Picard says in Nemesis.

Troi is in sick bay having just suffered a mind rape from Shinzon and his Viceroy. She's basically been raped sexually via the mind. This term is the correct term to use as that is what happened.

What does Picard say? he asks her to "endure more of these attacks". It's the scene where he says that line and then is beamed to the Scimitar.

I mean seriously, who the hell put that line in the movie? Picard wants Troi to endure further mental/sexual rape? That's not the Captain Picard I grew to know.

You can only be physically raped.You cannot be mentally raped.The idea of mental rape is absurd.they are just images after all similar to dreams.people dream sexual stuff all the time and shrug it off.

Picard as captain has the right to get his crew members to do their duty so that the ship and other crew members can be saved including troi as well.

i mean what use is your chastity if your are about to be blown up with a thousand others including kids?

tori is not a virgin or chaste.we are sure she has watched porn and did sexual shenagians with toys and had sex in the holodeck with multiple partners.

also troi was quite used to spying on others people thoughts and a little sexual imagery is not going to harm her,she is after all a grown women fully sexually alive and should be used to sexual imagery from people around her when she spying on them.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

You can only be physically raped.You cannot be mentally raped.The idea of mental rape is absurd.they are just images after all similar to dreams.people dream sexual stuff all the time and shrug it off.

Comparing dreams and natural sleep to telepathic invasion of a sexual nature by an alien is nothing alike, it's not even in the same league.

Also you claim you can only be physically raped. That definition is based on the now, here in the 21st century where telepathy doesn't exist. In the Trekverse where telepathy is common place and people can be forced to suffer images of a telepathic nature then there is no doubt the definition of rape can be expanded/extended to include mental as well as physical.

How you can possibly think you can still use 21st century definitions for something that is supposed to be happening 300 years in the future where telepathy now exists is beyond me.

 

[iguana_tonante]

When you get smacked down by Tachy, you know you are in deep shit.

 

[Shazam!]

we are sure she has watched porn and did sexual shenagians with toys and had sex in the holodeck with multiple partners.

That was my favourite episode of TNG

 

[Whoa Nellie]

And yes, it's best to forget Nemesis. If you read Brent Spiner's Twitter it seems like even he has erased it from his memory.

Which is made all the more amusing by the fact that Brent Spiner has a writing credit for the film.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[Alrik]

And yes, it's best to forget Nemesis. If you read Brent Spiner's Twitter it seems like even he has erased it from his memory.

Which is made all the more amusing by the fact that Brent Spiner has a writing credit for the film.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

Bet ya he'd like to have a 'do over' on that one.

 

[ClayinCA]

In that respect, he's not all that different from many of us who saw the film!

 

[Alrik]

It just dawned on me about a line that Picard says in Nemesis.

Troi is in sick bay having just suffered a mind rape from Shinzon and his Viceroy. She's basically been raped sexually via the mind. This term is the correct term to use as that is what happened.

What does Picard say? he asks her to "endure more of these attacks". It's the scene where he says that line and then is beamed to the Scimitar.

I mean seriously, who the hell put that line in the movie? Picard wants Troi to endure further mental/sexual rape? That's not the Captain Picard I grew to know.

You can only be physically raped.You cannot be mentally raped.The idea of mental rape is absurd.they are just images after all similar to dreams....

Sorry noknowes, you might be able to get away with putting forward hair brained, no fact arguements in the Science Forum, but in the Trek Forums you had better be able to back your possition. There are 5 series and 11 movies worth of established, on screen canon that most will use to prove the point that they are making.

Point in case. In the Trekkerverse, TNG's Season 5, Episode 11, Violations clearly established that Telepathic Mental Violation/Rape was a very real and dangerous thing. (You can read about it here: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68530.html ) Nemesis was a poorly executed variation of the same theme. Sorry, but your arguement is null and void. Not only is the idea not absurd, it is clearly established as Trek fact.

Tachy, let me first say congrats on being so diplomatic in your reply. Had I read that first, I'm not so sure I could have been.

On a return to topic, due to the happenings in the ep Violations, it really does make that scene and Picard's request that much more completely wrong. I realize that Baird didn't give a damn about Star Trek, but you would have thought that SOMEONE involved with making this steaming pile of dung would have stepped up and pointed out just how out of character this would be.

 

[noknowes]

It just dawned on me about a line that Picard says in Nemesis.

Troi is in sick bay having just suffered a mind rape from Shinzon and his Viceroy. She's basically been raped sexually via the mind. This term is the correct term to use as that is what happened.

What does Picard say? he asks her to "endure more of these attacks". It's the scene where he says that line and then is beamed to the Scimitar.

I mean seriously, who the hell put that line in the movie? Picard wants Troi to endure further mental/sexual rape? That's not the Captain Picard I grew to know.

You can only be physically raped.You cannot be mentally raped.The idea of mental rape is absurd.they are just images after all similar to dreams....

Sorry noknowes, you might be able to get away with putting forward hair brained, no fact arguements in the Science Forum, but in the Trek Forums you had better be able to back your possition. There are 5 series and 11 movies worth of established, on screen canon that most will use to prove the point that they are making.

Point in case. In the Trekkerverse, TNG's Season 5, Episode 11, Violations clearly established that Telepathic Mental Violation/Rape was a very real and dangerous thing. (

But we are watching a movie not the series.Average Joe has no idea about that episode which I did not watch or remember.

But your case is null and void due to the fact you ignored the remaining 4/5th=80% of the post which backed up my argument totally,namely in extremis you will do what it takes to survive.

 

[David cgc]

but when he expresses confidence in his highly trained telepath and her ability to handle some punk kid with a boner, he's suddenly the king asshole.

It was the Reman viceroy she was being attacked by, he was the telepath and she was unable to stop his attack.

Oh, well if it was frickin' Nosferato over there, then of course he should've treated her as an incompetent weakling who was incapable of doing her job. Thank you for clarifying. Let's review the lines in question.

Troi: Shinzon's Viceroy seems to have the ability to reach into my thoughts. I've become a liability... I request to be relieved of my duties.
Picard: Permission denied. If you can possibly endure any more of these assaults, I need you at my side. Now more than ever, I—

She wasn't trying to go off duty because she was too traumatized to perform her duties, or because, as you seem to imply, her brain would be more exposed to danger on the bridge than in her quarters (where, you know, the attack happened). She did it because she thought it was possible the Viceroy could receive her thoughts as well as send thoughts to her, so she shouldn't be exposed to sensitive information. Picard, who was more clear-minded at the moment, recognized this was patent nonsense, and if the Viceroy were, indeed, capable of reading her thoughts, he'd be able to read anyone's thoughts, and keeping her locked up wouldn't help anyone.

Which means, amazingly, that the phrase "If you can possibly endure any more of these assaults" means the exact opposite of what you said. Picard wasn't telling her to stay on duty despite being traumatized, he was saying that if she actually was traumatized, then she could be relieved, but he wouldn't relieve her because of an irrational fear that she was a security risk.

 

[Alrik]

You can only be physically raped.You cannot be mentally raped.The idea of mental rape is absurd.they are just images after all similar to dreams....

Sorry noknowes, you might be able to get away with putting forward hair brained, no fact arguements in the Science Forum, but in the Trek Forums you had better be able to back your possition. There are 5 series and 11 movies worth of established, on screen canon that most will use to prove the point that they are making.

Point in case. In the Trekkerverse, TNG's Season 5, Episode 11, Violations clearly established that Telepathic Mental Violation/Rape was a very real and dangerous thing. (

But we are watching a movie not the series.Average Joe has no idea about that episode which I did not watch or remember.

But your case is null and void due to the fact you ignored the remaining 2/3 of the post which backed up my argument totally,namely in extremis you will do what it takes to survive.

Ignored? No, not really. More like it is so laughable that I tried to avoid it. But if you want to press the issue....lets.

Picard as captain has the right to get his crew members to do their duty so that the ship and other crew members can be saved including troi as well.

Um...No. No person has the right to order another person to be violated. Any person who would even consider doing such should not be in command in the first place. If she were to volunteer, that would be one thing. As a matter of fact, it couldn't even be looked at as a violation. But to be asked, or worse yet ordered to submit. That is just wrong on every level.

i mean what use is your chastity if your are about to be blown up with a thousand others including kids?

I don't even know where to begin with this kind of thinking. Are you for real?

tori is not a virgin or chaste.we are sure she has watched porn and did sexual shenagians with toys and had sex in the holodeck with multiple partners.

What episode or movie did I miss? Sounds pretty damn interesting. But again, no. Not only are we not sure about about any of this, with the exception of her virginity, there is nothing anywhere, except maybe slash fiction, that would even suggest anything like this. Someone has quite the imagination.

also troi was quite used to spying on others people thoughts and a little sexual imagery is not going to harm her,she is after all a grown women fully sexually alive and should be used to sexual imagery from people around her when she spying on them

Again, big difference between imagery that can be controlled, and mental rape. Sorry. Just doesn't hold up.

Finally, saying my case is null and void because I identified the root of the plot point is so far out there that its not even funny. So what if it was originated in an episode? The fact is, it still happened on screen. If you are going to dismiss my point because of that, than you had better dismiss the rest of the movie, because due to how week that script was, if you didn't have a pretty good understanding of TNG going in, you were probably lost within the first 10 minutes anyway.

 

[noknowes]

Sorry noknowes, you might be able to get away with putting forward hair brained, no fact arguements in the Science Forum, but in the Trek Forums you had better be able to back your possition. There are 5 series and 11 movies worth of established, on screen canon that most will use to prove the point that they are making.

Point in case. In the Trekkerverse, TNG's Season 5, Episode 11, Violations clearly established that Telepathic Mental Violation/Rape was a very real and dangerous thing. (

But we are watching a movie not the series.Average Joe has no idea about that episode which I did not watch or remember.

But your case is null and void due to the fact you ignored the remaining 2/3 of the post which backed up my argument totally,namely in extremis you will do what it takes to survive.

Ignored? No, not really. More like it is so laughable that I tried to avoid it. But if you want to press the issue....lets.



Um...No. No person has the right to order another person to be violated. Any person who would even consider doing such should not be in command in the first place. If she were to volunteer, that would be one thing. As a matter of fact, it couldn't even be looked at as a violation. But to be asked, or worse yet ordered to submit. That is just wrong on every level.



I don't even know where to begin with this kind of thinking. Are you for real?

tori is not a virgin or chaste.we are sure she has watched porn and did sexual shenagians with toys and had sex in the holodeck with multiple partners.

What episode or movie did I miss? Sounds pretty damn interesting. But again, no. Not only are we not sure about about any of this, with the exception of her virginity, there is nothing anywhere, except maybe slash fiction, that would even suggest anything like this. Someone has quite the imagination.

also troi was quite used to spying on others people thoughts and a little sexual imagery is not going to harm her,she is after all a grown women fully sexually alive and should be used to sexual imagery from people around her when she spying on them

Again, big difference between imagery that can be controlled, and mental rape. Sorry. Just doesn't hold up.

Finally, saying my case is null and void because I identified the root of the plot point is so far out there that its not even funny. So what if it was originated in an episode? The fact is, it still happened on screen. If you are going to dismiss my point because of that, than you had better dismiss the rest of the movie, because due to how week that script was, if you didn't have a pretty good understanding of TNG going in, you were probably lost within the first 10 minutes anyway.

troi frequently went into other people minds.she was fully accustomed to their sexual thoughts.

even today shrinks are fully accustomed to sexual stories of their patients.

people who watch porn are not easily shocked and become immune.likewise for troi.

David cgi who quotes the lines indicates she was willing.

In Star Trek 3 Kirk destroys the enterprise and says what have I done? and bones says you turned it into a fighting chance to live.

similarly picard is fully entitled to use a willing troi to save his ship and crew.

If i had been charge i would have ordered her to submit to shinzon or even to a reman as again it would save the ship and crew.

space is cold,hostile, indifferent and we must use any method to survive.

japan ordered pilots to kamikaze into usa carriers to improve their chance in the war.

america orders infantry to go to war.


moral values,what moral values? if your dead ,dead, dead.

 

[Kirk1980]

Oh brother. Remind me never to put you in charge of any group where there's girls in it. They would beat your ass. Someone can VOLUNTEER, yes. He can even ask for her to volunteer. But to order someone to be raped? That's what the assholes the 'good guys' are supposed to be fighting against do.