What of Lazarus?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And what of Lazurus indeed! I'd like to think he's still out there fighting himself somewhere, with that smoke machine and soundtrack.

There's a SNW story that deals with that. It's called "Reborn".

Spoiler: Reborn

Basically, The Sisko lets Lazarus out. Both of them. Each is deposited onto his universe's version of Bajor. And whichever one was the nutcase - which was never spelled out in the episode, as clearly BOTH versions were unhinged - is now normal.

 

[UnknownSample]

You weren't just saving time, you were claiming something demonstrably false: That the audience would have no idea what antimatter was. The concept was already reasonably well-known by the time Star Trek came along.

Not by the general public... just by people who were interested and well read in those areas of science. Still to this day, anti-matter to most people is one of those things they talk about on sci-fi shows.

 

[Christopher]

Not by the general public... just by people who were interested and well read in those areas of science. Still to this day, anti-matter to most people is one of those things they talk about on sci-fi shows.

I don't know why you're so hell-bent on assuming that when I and nebusj have already given you several examples of its pop-culture use predating and contemporary with Star Trek. The point is, it was covered in the front-page news in 1955, and just two years later it was used in a really, really dumb, cheap B-movie, The Giant Claw. So obviously it wasn't just some obscure bit of esoterica, but something that quickly permeated into even the most lowbrow areas of popular culture. By the mid-60s, it was showing up frequently in SFTV. In addition to the three 1966-7 examples I've listed already, there was also a 1964 Outer Limits episode that mentioned it, "Production and Decay of Strange Particles."

Oh, and here's an even better example: DC Comics introduced Qward, a planet in an "anti-matter universe," in Green Lantern Vol. 2 #2, dated October 1960. The Weaponers of Qward were frequently recurring villains in Green Lantern from then on. Marvel introduced their own antimatter universe, the Negative Zone, in an issue dated June 1966. (The actual release dates would've been a few months earlier.)

So there's no denying the facts. By the time Star Trek premiered, the concept of antimatter had been permeating mass-media pop culture for a decade. Given that a large percentage of Star Trek's audience would be science fiction fans already, there's just no sense in assuming that they'd somehow failed to hear of what was already a very well-established concept.

 

[Poltargyst]

As I said, it was a major plot point in a cheesy 1957 B-movie. I doubt anyone would argue that The Giant Claw was on the cutting edge of conceptual innovation, so the idea was probably familiar to the general public even then. And it showed up in at least three places that I know of in 1966-7 mass media -- Star Trek, the Batman feature, and the Lost in Space episode "The Anti-Matter Man." That indicates that the concept had already suffused popular culture fairly widely.

After all, unlike the dark ages of superstition and ignorance we currently live in, Americans back then were actually interested in science. The post-WWII era was a time of great optimism about scientific and technological progress, and breakthroughs like the detection of antiprotons and antineutrons in 1955-6 were covered in the news and followed with interest. Indeed, I checked the New York Times archives, and the discovery of the "negative proton" in October 1955 was reported on the front page of the Times, with two followup articles over the next two months. It was most likely covered on TV and radio news as well.

You've made me curious. You don't think that people today are as interested in science as in the past?

 

[Jayson1]

Am I the only one who always has problems figuring out which Lazarus is which? I know they give him the bandage to try and separate the two but I always get confused and frankly I get just as confused when they start talking about anti matter and somehow everything is causing problems throughout the universe.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

You've made me curious. You don't think that people today are as interested in science as in the past?

Anti-science and anti-intellectual fervor has become a dangerously potent factor in modern American politics, driving climate denial and the anti-vaccine movement as well as increased religious fanaticism and pushes to teach Creationism in schools. Good grief, the anti-science faction currently controls the White House and Congress, and science is under attack in this country like never before. America used to pride itself on its scientific prowess and innovation; now we're backsliding at an alarming rate.

 

[T'Bonz]

Am I the only one who always has problems figuring out which Lazarus is which? I know they give him the bandage to try and separate the two but I always get confused and frankly I get just as confused when they start talking about anti matter and somehow everything is causing problems throughout the universe.

Jason

I'm one of the few who likes the ep, but damned if I could *ever* figure out which was which most of the time.

 

[J.T.B.]

Am I the only one who always has problems figuring out which Lazarus is which?

I'm not 100% sure the director knew.

 

[Trekkin]

*wiggles fingers in a sage way*

You're not meant to know. Because... there's really no difference between them!

It's thematic, you see.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It seems clear that both Lazari were equally nutso, as they always acted the same whenever they switched from one to the other. Thus the calm, 'sane' Lazarus we meet at the end of the episode could be either one of them.

 

[Timo]

Well, Lazarus was supposed to be a Mad Scientist by profession. An entry requirement for that is a deep conviction in everybody else being mad. As in "The fools! I will destroy them all!". Naturally that would extend to one's identical twin, with a vengeance...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Poltargyst]

Anti-science and anti-intellectual fervor has become a dangerously potent factor in modern American politics, driving climate denial and the anti-vaccine movement as well as increased religious fanaticism and pushes to teach Creationism in schools. Good grief, the anti-science faction currently controls the White House and Congress, and science is under attack in this country like never before. America used to pride itself on its scientific prowess and innovation; now we're backsliding at an alarming rate.

Can't argue unfortunately.

 

[Qonundrum]

I've always had a thought that Lazarus was potentially from the Mirror Universe. Anyone have any similar thoughts on that?

I can't remember if there's anything in the dialogue that would make that unlikely. Not an episode that gets heavy rewatches.

It's my least-favorite episode, the writing and technobabble are horrendous. But it's an interesting theory, and the episode may have been an inspiration for "Mirror, Mirror" - even if not referenced (thankfully) by any of the Enterprise crew. It's a happy coincidence only.

 

[Christopher]

the episode may have been an inspiration for "Mirror, Mirror"

It wasn't. Jerome Bixby based the concept of "Mirror, Mirror" on his own 1953 short story "One Way Street." Although in his original premise, the alternate Enterprise wasn't evil, just different and less advanced in some ways. The idea of an evil alternate universe may have been inspired by the early drafts of "The City on the Edge of Forever," where the changed timeline had turned the Enterprise into a pirate ship.

 

[TalonCard]

Anti-science and anti-intellectual fervor has become a dangerously potent factor in modern American politics, driving climate denial and the anti-vaccine movement as well as increased religious fanaticism and pushes to teach Creationism in schools. Good grief, the anti-science faction currently controls the White House and Congress, and science is under attack in this country like never before. America used to pride itself on its scientific prowess and innovation; now we're backsliding at an alarming rate.

Kind of makes you want to be an actual scientist doing valuable research instead of posting constantly to Star Trek message boards, doesn't it?

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

It seems clear that both Lazari were equally nutso, as they always acted the same whenever they switched from one to the other. Thus the calm, 'sane' Lazarus we meet at the end of the episode could be either one of them.

I'm just delighted that Kirk found the perfect solution: lock Lazarus away forever and let him beat himself up.

 

[Classic_Colin]

The episode would have been significantly more effective and less ridiculous simply if the Anti-Matter Lazarus had not appeared until the very end. As Mr. Laser Beam pointed out, the two Lazari are nearly indistinguishable from each other in conduct or temperament until at the end, when the Anti-Matter Lazarus is entirely lucid, pacified, and reasonable. The dual Lazari and the clear mark of physical distinction between them with the bandage were too evocative of 'The Enemy Within', anyway.

A single Lazarus, seen throughout the majority of the episode, could have garnered our sympathies and have more successfully conveyed his fear-mongering assessment of the alternative Lazarus.

Lastly, Kirk submitting both Lazari to an eternity of hellish combat and seizure-inducing light oscillations was pretty cruel, in retrospect. Couldn't he have simply isolated the 'evil' Lazarus?

 

[Poltargyst]

Kind of makes you want to be an actual scientist doing valuable research instead of posting constantly to Star Trek message boards, doesn't it?

I tried that once. I found that
1) I wasn't all that good at it.
2) I found it really really boring.

 

[Jayson1]

The episode would have been significantly more effective and less ridiculous simply if the Anti-Matter Lazarus had not appeared until the very end. As Mr. Laser Beam pointed out, the two Lazari are nearly indistinguishable from each other in conduct or temperament until at the end, when the Anti-Matter Lazarus is entirely lucid, pacified, and reasonable. The dual Lazari and the clear mark of physical distinction between them with the bandage were too evocative of 'The Enemy Within', anyway.

A single Lazarus, seen throughout the majority of the episode, could have garnered our sympathies and have more successfully conveyed his fear-mongering assessment of the alternative Lazarus.

Lastly, Kirk submitting both Lazari to an eternity of hellish combat and seizure-inducing light oscillations was pretty cruel, in retrospect. Couldn't he have simply isolated the 'evil' Lazarus?

I'm not even sure how both Lazarus's are going to last forever in hippie dreamscape land without food or water. Also where does the air come from or the ground they are standing on?

Jason

 

[Harvey]

It wasn't. Jerome Bixby based the concept of "Mirror, Mirror" on his own 1953 short story "One Way Street." Although in his original premise, the alternate Enterprise wasn't evil, just different and less advanced in some ways. The idea of an evil alternate universe may have been inspired by the early drafts of "The City on the Edge of Forever," where the changed timeline had turned the Enterprise into a pirate ship.

An early story outline for "The Alternative Factor" sent Kirk to the anti-matter Enterprise, where he eventually meets the "good" Lazarus, after having a few weird interactions with the alternate Enterprise crew. I doubt Bixby was aware of this, however.