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What is your view of Enterprise?

Star Trek Enterprise (the Prequel Series)....


  • Total voters
    103
What numbers are you looking at? Clearly not the result of the poll.
1 - that does not like Enterprise
0 - that thought is does not fit canon at all
4 - canon with specifit altered time lines
22 - canon or close canon
6 - canon is not that big of an issue

Think again.
25 percent of the voters believe that ENT is anything but what the producers say it was which was NON ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, and CANON,

Not canon = 0 votes.
Altered time lines = 4 votes.
How do you get 25 percent?

The other 25 percent don't care...."It's just a TV show"
That's not a favorable vote that's apathy.

The positive result is that something less than 50 percent believe it's EXACTLY what the producers say it is.
The choice is "Is just a TV show. I really don't care about canon." You cannot remove part of the specification for that choice and twist it to your view. I don't obsess over canon but that does not mean I don't like the show or that I am apathetic.

I realize that you guys hate literalism but the statement of "its just a TV show" is a vote of apathy. It's not as though it said I love the show but the details are unimportant. I really payed attention to that and curiously I found it reflects real life...People didn't really notice or care about the show.

Could it be that a lack of support for your "I hate Enterprise" campaign is driving you to see things that are not there?
Whoa there Kemosabe.
You may not like my blunt point of view for the show but I don't need yours or anyone else's support to analyze a show or a poll for that matter. My points of view are usually independent from yours and "the mob" mentality most people work under. I don't need the views I adopt to be popular and that is perhaps the one thing you should have picked up on.

If you don't like Enterprise, fine. That is your right. If you want to come here and tell everyone how bad you think Enterprise is, fine.
How gracious.

Seen it before. If you cannot understand how someone could like a show that you hate, that is your problem. You should realize that one person does not determine the value of any art form.
Hate is such a strong word.
I'm mostly indifferent, I just don't care about but because it's Trek and Trek I do like or at least used to, I find that it is a distasteful fly in the ointment of what was otherwise ...mostly congruent.

If you try to twist votes to fit your cause then you are crossing the line. I don't think Enterprise is totally canon. I don't think TOS or TNG are totally canon. I also don't obsess over canon. It's not canon that determines the quality of the show. I do see that some people get bent out of shape over little variances. For anyone that looses sleep at night over canon I recommend a visit to the local community mental health center.
CAUSE?
Really, cause...that's...interesting. My opinion of the show is now a cause. You think more of what I think of my opinion than I do. I think you're little irritated. Chill out.

People will have an opinion, just because my opinion conflicts with yours isn't a logical reason for contention of this nature.
 
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CAUSE?
Really, cause...that's...interesting. My opinion of the show is now a cause. You think more of what I think my opinion of that I do. I think you're little irritated. Chill out.

People will have an opinion, just because my opinion conflicts with yours isn't a logical reason for contention of this nature.

My suggestion. Go to your user area and look at recent posts. Count the number of posts you have made expressing your dislike of Enterprise over the past two weeks. Count the number of times you have responded to positive posts with your negative view. Look at how much time you are spending on a forum dedicated to a show you do not like. Now, ask yourself, "Why am I here? Why does it bother me that people like this show? Why must I rebut every positive post about this show?"

If you have a need to counter an opposing view over and over and over for weeks, I think you have turned it into a cause. You can tell me to chill out, but I'm not at the Voyager forum trying to convince Voyager fans that the show they like is horrible. Why would I waste my time? I don't want to focus on the negative? I prefer positive social interaction.
 
My suggestion. Go to your user area and look at recent posts. Count the number of posts you have made expressing your dislike of Enterprise over the past two weeks. Count the number of times you have responded to positive posts with your negative view. Look at how much time you are spending on a forum dedicated to a show you do not like. Now, ask yourself, "Why am I here? Why does it bother me that people like this show? Why must I rebut every positive post about this show?"

:techman:
 
My suggestion. Go to your user area and look at recent posts. Count the number of posts you have made expressing your dislike of Enterprise over the past two weeks. Count the number of times you have responded to positive posts with your negative view. Look at how much time you are spending on a forum dedicated to a show you do not like. Now, ask yourself, "Why am I here? Why does it bother me that people like this show? Why must I rebut every positive post about this show?"

:techman:
:techman::techman:
 
Okay. You really don't need to be giving me attitude dude.
Trust me on this; it's not attitude, it was just a statement. It's just my New York City way of expressing myself.

I am aware of the fact that most people on various forums were accepting of Enterprise long before I posted here. Besides, I am after all the one who posted the figures, too. In fact, I respected your opinion and told you to enjoy the show. You don't need to get cute and rub it in my face, man.
Again, I'm not rubbing anything in anyone's face. However, I did get a certain amount of satisfaction to see that my fellow posters here pretty much feel the same way I do. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
 
My suggestion. Go to your user area and look at recent posts. Count the number of posts you have made expressing your dislike of Enterprise over the past two weeks. Count the number of times you have responded to positive posts with your negative view. Look at how much time you are spending on a forum dedicated to a show you do not like. Now, ask yourself, "Why am I here? Why does it bother me that people like this show? Why must I rebut every positive post about this show?"

:techman:
:techman::techman:
:techman::techman::techman:
 
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CAUSE?
Really, cause...that's...interesting. My opinion of the show is now a cause. You think more of what I think my opinion of that I do. I think you're little irritated. Chill out.

People will have an opinion, just because my opinion conflicts with yours isn't a logical reason for contention of this nature.

My suggestion. Go to your user area and look at recent posts. Count the number of posts you have made expressing your dislike of Enterprise over the past two weeks. Count the number of times you have responded to positive posts with your negative view. Look at how much time you are spending on a forum dedicated to a show you do not like. Now, ask yourself, "Why am I here? Why does it bother me that people like this show? Why must I rebut every positive post about this show?"

I'm sure that's how you feel but his isn't really up for debate.
I know exactly what I'm doing and I know I don't rebut every positive post about the show. You're resulting to hyperbole. You just don't like what I've had to say.

You might want to consider thread topics when you post in if you can't handle a negative view or all you want to hear is gushing praise. I'm not naive, I'm perfectly fine with your views and you expressing them...but you and your ...thumbs...seem to only want ear tickling.

Sorry, I tell it like it is.
You don't have to get over it but I tell you what. You don't have to create a scene over it, run a thread off course and rally your troops. So you say it's my cause but I'm not rallying anybody and you might want to consider next time if you have a real personality conflict with me or anyone to take it to a private message. I know I would appreciate it...because I don't go for the whole hosing down the forum with personal issues.

If you have a need to counter an opposing view over and over and over for weeks, I think you have turned it into a cause. You can tell me to chill out, but I'm not at the Voyager forum trying to convince Voyager fans that the show they like is horrible. Why would I waste my time? I don't want to focus on the negative? I prefer positive social interaction.
It's a realist point of view that I have but you know that's what you're going to get on a forum, differing points of view. I've never been a clone and I never will be.

I respect your views as you have them.
It's just a suggestion but you might want to look around and see the variety.
 
Again, it does not bother me for someone to say they don't like Enterprise. I said it myself the first time I saw an episode oh so long ago.

Saying you don't like Enterprise over and over and over every time someone posts something positive makes me wonder why you feel the need to be persistently negative.

Changing "I don't care about canon" to "I don't care about Enterprise" makes you seem desperate to inflate numbers of how many people here don't like Enterprise.

You say "I respect your views as you have them" buy you don't. It seems to bother you a lot. You don't seem to respect anyone that has an opposing view. The only issue I have with you is that you seem to have issues with the thought that anyone could enjoy such a despicable show. There is a difference between "I don't like the show" and "This show is so bad it should have never been on the air and my twisted numbers shows that anyone who likes it is in the minority and I will devote my life to converting them to my side." :borg:
 
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Good gravy, KNOCK IT OFF already. Everybody.

Saquist: this is not the Vulcan Science Academy, or Debate Team. This is the Enterprise forum on a Trek bulletin board, populated by emotional, passionate people who may not give a rip about logic, because they often speak from their hearts. You may prefer literalizing and picking apart minutiae word by word, but it can be off-putting in this informal atmosphere. You may feel obliged to respond to any comment to which you take exception, but it's getting redundant. Your blunt delivery is not helping, either. Try softer. Folks here just want to have a discussion and exchange their various personal points of view. There's no way to "win" an exchange of personal opinions.

Everyone: This forum is not a clubhouse solely for people who like Enterprise, any more than it's here only for people who love Trip, or hate TATV, or anything else. This is a forum for discussing ALL points of view. If someone expresses an opinion you don't share, get over it. Disagree if you like (politely, please), and/or post your own views -- but don't tell them they're wrong. Personal opinions can be different, but they are not "wrong." They are opinions. Show some tolerance. Variety is the spice of life. IDIC. Etc.

Stop the personal attacks and the "us" vs "them" crap. Stop jumping to conclusions about what you assume someone means; ask for clarification (without the snotty 'tude, please) if something doesn't make sense to you. Stop using your viewpoints as blunt instruments to beat other opinions into submission. Stop telling each other how to think and what to do. Take a deep breath, put down your rocks, and get back to talking about the topic. Okay?
 
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Good gravy, KNOCK IT OFF already. Everybody.

Saquist: this is not the Vulcan Science Academy, or Debate Team. This is the Enterprise forum on a Trek bulletin board, populated by emotional, passionate people who may not give a rip about logic, because they often speak from their hearts. You may prefer literalizing and picking apart minutiae word by word, but it can be off-putting in this informal atmosphere. You may feel obliged to respond to any comment to which you take exception, but it's getting redundant. Your blunt delivery is not helping, either. Try softer. Folks here just want to have a discussion and exchange their various personal points of view. There's no way to "win" an exchange of personal opinions.

Everyone: This forum is not a clubhouse solely for people who like Enterprise, any more than it's here only for people who love Trip, or hate TATV, or anything else. This is a forum for discussing ALL points of view. If someone expresses an opinion you don't share, get over it. Disagree if you like (politely, please), and/or post your own views -- but don't tell them they're wrong. Personal opinions can be different, but they are not "wrong." They are opinions. Show some tolerance. Variety is the spice of life. IDIC. Etc.

Stop the personal attacks and the "us" vs "them" crap. Stop jumping to conclusions about what you assume someone means; ask for clarification (without the snotty 'tude, please) if something doesn't make sense to you. Stop using your viewpoints as blunt instruments to beat other opinions into submission. Stop telling each other how to think and what to do. Take a deep breath, put down your rocks, and get back to talking about the topic. Okay?

Yes, ma'am. Standing down.
"old habits...."
 
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"Star Trek Enterprise" is officially authorized by the studio that it is canon (of which I agree with). However, I also believe "Enterprise" broke previous Trek canon, though. Now, whether you agree with me or not, I personally think that you would have to take previous Trek series episodes out of their original context or meaning (when they first aired) in order for Enterprise to fit normally within the Prime Universe or the Core Star Trek Time Line (Please check out the link at the bottom of this post for a further explanation).

However, lucky for me there is enough bread crumbs sprinkled about within "Enterprise" and the film "First Contact" to explain Enterprise as some kind of Unexplained First Contact Time Line and or Temporal Cold War Time Line.

Here is a list that I came up with...

Reasons why I think Enterprise is an Alternate Time Line:


1. Regeneration & Picard & Crew's Influence in First Contact:

In ENT's "Regeneration", after a bit of research, Archer tells T'Pol that Dr. Zefram Cochrane spoke of a group of cybernetic creatures from the future who had intended to "enslave the Human race" during his first warp test flight. These creatures had tried to prevent the flight, but were stopped by a group of Humans, who were also from the future. In other words, this episode makes it is very clear that Star Trek: Enterprise is clearly a First Contact Time Line.

Now, in the movie "First Contact" - Cochran's and Lily's view of themselves has been changed when Picard and crew show them future technology and tell them of a future in which they live in. This would in effect: change both of the decisions Lily and Cochrane normally would have made in the original time line (that was not altered yet). In fact, I theorize that the very changes within this new altered time line (on Enterprise) is that Lily and Cochran both pushed for advancements in cutting edge technology and space travel. Which would in effect be the very reason why we see phase pistols (phasers) and photonic cannons and not nuclear missiles on starships. Even the MACO's could have came about because of Lily, too. She now knew of the harsh dangers such as the Borg and could have very well influenced the military into creating a special elite group that could assist Starfleet (in dire or desperate situations).

The question remains is: do you believe that the various series and films you seen prior before the film "First Contact" to be an already previously Altered First Contact TIme Line, or was it the Original Time Line that had not been altered yet?

It depends on your interpretation or your belief on time travel of course.

However, seeing there were some serious canonical differences or questions that were raised between Enterprise and the other Trek series (which happened later); it is pretty safe to assume that the events we see before First Contact the film was within the Original Core Trek Time Line (that had not been altered, influenced, and or changed yet).


2. Temporal Cold War:

The Temporal Cold War was established on day one on "Star Trek: Enterprise" and it was a long drawn out story arc that was stretched out through out the bulk of the series. Granted, nothing was ever explained properly about the Temporal Cold War or what it was about in any real detail; however, it existed within the series none the less.

In fact, there are some that believe that the Temporal Cold War had later seized to exist and didn't have any real effect on the time line. However, if you were to look at the episodes, "Carpenter Street", "Storm Front Part 2", and "Home" we discover that the time line of Enterprise was indeed changed or effected in some way. We learn from Daniels that the Xindi attack on Earth was not supposed to have happened in the first place. Yet, after the Temporal Cold War was coming to an end, we learn that: Archer, his crew, and the entire planet of Earth had still been effected and retained knowledge of the Xindi attack. In other words, this would suggest that the events we see in Enterprise's 4th Season are events that still took place within the wake of the Temporal Cold War (or altered time line).

Furthermore, although this is not concrete proof: the fact that the Xindi Attack had never been mentioned before in any of the other previous Trek series is also an indication that Enterprise is not really a part of the Core Trek Time Line, but an altered time line.

3. Series looks like it is in the 24th Century and not the 22nd Century:

JJ Abram's film did a great job in showing us that his time line took place within the 23rd Century. However, on "Star: Enterprise" (which took place in the 22nd Century): things looked too similar to the 24th Century. I mean, just look at the technology of how it progresses within our world. Our technology has continued to make incredible leaps and so far it has only taken decades and not centuries to do so. Granted, there could be a reason for the stagnation of technology between the 22nd and 23rd centuries, but we should be told about such a thing (or an event) if such a thing happened (Please check out the link at the bottom of this post for a further explanation).

4. Canon is either broken or put into serious question or debate:

Enterprise was not guilty of minor throw away lines or some play on words involving warp drive like other Trek series. Enterprise put into question very serious issues with the Star Trek Universe that rocked the very foundation of what this series was trying to be (which was a prequel series). Essentially, these violations put into question on whether or not Enterprise fit within the Core Trek Time Line. For a complete list of canon violations, (please check out the link at the bottom of this post).

5. These Are The Voyages:

"These Are The Voyages" appeared to be an attempt at inserting "Star Trek: Enterprise" into the Core Trek Time Line. However, things went horribly wrong and "These are the Voyages" and "Pegasus" doesn't match up at all. In fact, there are quite a few scenes that provide evidence to this. However, the big one is that at the end of TATV, we see Riker is ready to talk with Captain Picard after his little holodeck lesson. Where as in TNG's "Pegasus", we see that Riker was only influenced to reveal the truth to Picard after the Romulans had put the ship in danger.


Anyways, if you are interested in checking out my list of canon violations on Enterprise and other related thoughts about the show. Please click here...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3997372&postcount=224

Thank you.


Side Note:

Oh, and I am not interested in getting into a great taste / less filling type debate over this either. If you feel I have made an error and can convince me of it, please by all means tell me intelligently and with kindness and respect. Also, if you don't explain yourself properly, or misunderstand me (constantly), or have no interest in backing up your debate with searchable sources, please don't reply or know that I might put my "shields up and ignore all hails" function on you.

Sources: http://www.mjyoung.net/time/stcontac.html
 
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Unless of course you subscribe or believe that Star Trek uses the "multiple time lines" theory that is. Which basically means, no particular time line can be really changed or destroyed, but alternately it creates a diverging timeline instead.

But either way, that is nice to hear that you believe that the Original Time Line existed before First Contact the film. There are some folks that don't. Which is neither right nor wrong of course (seeing it is all fiction and theoretical anyways).

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_timeline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
 
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Yep. No one really knows how a temporal loop may play out. I've never believed in the "every decision can result in multiple universes" theory because I don't believe that the material that makes up a universe magically doubles each time a decision is made that can create another universe. I do believe time is like a flowing stream of water. The center flows with some consistency while the edges are prone spinning pools.
 
I've never believed in the "every decision can result in multiple universes" theory because I don't believe that the material that makes up a universe magically doubles each time a decision is made that can create another universe.
That's not exactly how quantum mechanics works, but I'm hardly the expert on the subject. Consider doing some reading yourself.

BTW, when a character travels back through time and meets its younger self, isn't that the example of two objects "magically" multiplying also?

Plus, remember all those Braxtons in Voyager?
 
Plus, remember all those Braxtons in Voyager?

Ah, now you got me thinking about all the Time Travel episodes and films on Star Trek now. Well, I counted them up and there are approximately 56 time travel episodes within Star Trek and 4 time travel Trek films. Which brings us to total of 60.


Star Trek - Original Series = 6

1. Naked Time
2. Tomorrow is Yesterday
3. The City on the Edge of Forever
4. Assignment Earth
5. Tholian Web (Tie-in to ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly")
6. All Our Yesterdays

Star Trek - The Animated Series = 1

1. Yesteryear

Star Trek - The Next Generation = 12

1. We'll Always Have Paris
2. Time Squared
3. Yesterday's Enterprise
4. Captain's Holiday
5. A Matter of Time
6. Cause and Effect
7. Time's Arrow l
8. Time's Arrow ll
9. Tapestry
10. Timescape
11. Firstborn
12. All Good Things...

Star Trek - Deep Space Nine = 10

1. Past Tense l
2. Past Tense ll
3. Visionary
4. The Visitor
5. Little Green Men
6. Accession
7. Trials and Tribble-ations
8. Children of Time
9. Wrongs Darker than Death or Night
10. Time's Orphan

Star Trek - Voyager = 12

1. Parallax
2. Time and Again
3. Eye of the Needle
4. Death Wish
5. Future's End l
6. Future's End ll
7. Before and After
8. Timeless
9. Relativity
10. Fury
11. Shattered
12. Endgame

Star Trek - Enterprise = 15

1. Broken Bow (Temporal Cold War introduced)
2. Coldfront
3. Shockwave l
4. Shockwave ll
5. Future Tense
6. Regeneration (Indirect Sequel to First Contact)
7. Carpenter Street (Xindi Attack is actually a Temporal Incursion)
8. Azati Prime
9. E-2
10. Zero Hour
11. Storm Front l
12. Storm Front ll (Temporal Cold War starts to end)
13. Home (Xindi Attack is not corrected after the TCW)
14. In A Mirror, Darkly l (Defiant of the Future Prime Universe appears)
15. In A Mirror, Darkly ll (Defiant of the Future Prime Universe appears)

Star Trek - The Movies = 4

1. Star Trek IV: The Voyager Home
2. Star Trek: Generations
3. Star Trek: First Contact
4. Star Trek (2009)



Side Note:

I added most of these from the list at Memory Alpha. However, I added a few more in Enterprise on my own, though, too.

Side Note 2:

Also, I have added TOS's "Tholian Web". Officially it is not a clear cut time travel episode. However, we do later discover the Defiant did indeed travel back in time within the Mirror Universe. Although, this evidence was not presented to us until ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" episodes, though.


Sources:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Time_travel_episodes
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Temporal_Cold_War
 
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Yep. No one really knows how a temporal loop may play out.

I always thought that the introduction of the temporal cold war in the pilot episode was a purposeful plot arc to easily get past some things that may contradict the other shows, and to give the writers free reign... AND in part of my theory, Enterprise NX-01 and her crew would have a final battle in it's 7th season, and win the temporal cold war, BUT, in doing so would be erased from time and sacrifice themselves to reset everything back. Sealing all the holes the series MIGHT have created... I'm glad it didn't turn out that way, but I wonder still if the TCW was a blank check for Enterprise, so at the very least, they could expand the Trek universe without being limited by TOS and everything after.

At this point, time travel is such a big part of this Star Trek, I think anything was possible in regard to changing timelines. As I said in another post in an alternate Enterprise thread, (Mods, please forgive me if this is abnoxious):

Can we not make the small assumption that all the various forms of time travel we see taking place on every Star Trek series ever made, including the animated series, and three of eleven theatrical films (that’s almost 30%), can possibly explain why we see variant differences here and there. We are watching a continually changing Trekverse because of all the little "butterflies" that get stepped on while our favorite intrepid characters find yet another way to arrive in the past. That's the way I like to look at it anyway.

One episode of one series (forgotten which) even shows us a time ship (Captain'd by Foreman's dad) with a screen full of alternate time lines that change with every dial Clarence Boddicker twists... isn't that similar to what we might see as we watch Trek, little itty-bitty unintentional but harmless alterations?

In many ways, time travel itself is a huge part of Treks bag of tricks (bag o'Treks?), appearing as a plot contrivance every ten episodes or so, part of the usual Star Trek minutia right along with phasers, warp drive, shirtless Kirk, and forehead make-up.

Enterprise introduced an entire, series long, time travel arc; all that meddlin' with the "time-o-sphere" (totally made that word up) has got to change something around every so often, eh? Are not the various purposely-alternate universes we see also considered canon? On Voyager, I saw Ensign Kim die several times, that happened - it’s canon. But he’s fine now; he made it to the last episode of Voyager, good for him. So alternate universes are canon, and I wouldn’t even call them alternate universes, just examples of what could have, and MAY HAVE been. In a fictional universe where kicking in some time travel is as easy as accidentally using a microwave in the Delphic Expanse, how can we expect nothing to be slightly off once in a while? Especially if it allows an upgrade of the show's universe, and doesn't limit the show to something no longer relevant... think "Crisis of Infinite Treks".

Besides, canon to me is only set up to keep things mildly in line. If a writer wants to introduce a new addition to a characters back story, or create a new technology, or even historical relevance within Star Treks universe, canon just makes sure it is a plausible choice given what has come before. It's not full proof, some throw away lines in one episode might contradict large complicated plots in some other episode from some completely different incarnation of Star Trek. Anything small I would just say, take a mulligan ~ no harm no foul. Anything big is a plot hole… Anything huge is a reboot (joke).

Somewhere, in the Trekverse, Edith Keeler is saying: “Quit pushin’ me into traffic for fuck’s sake!!”


But, whadoo I know?:confused:
 
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