What is your view of Enterprise?

[star]

I voted "Is canon that fits somewhat within the Core Trek Time Line.".

Enterprise wasn't a perfect fit with the so called Core Trek time line, but that only due to the passage of time and creative differences in the production of the various series. Having said that, there is no reason to doubt that the NX-01 crew pre-dated the crew of the NCC-1701 even though it was never spoken of.

I don't believe in the "Altered First Contact Time Line". I believe that FC created and endless time line loop that was always a part the original time line. I also believe that the events of the TCW repaired themselves (as stated by Daniels).

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Though there are canon discrepencies with all of the series, I do feel that ENT made some changes that were a little too much at times.... but not enough to throw out the entire (and imaginary) canon bible of Trek.

In the end Star trek is just a TV show. We shouldn't care about the canon as long as we are entertained. If we spend too much time on this canon crap, that means we really need to get some more imprtant things going on in our lives.

Yep. When it boils down to it for me... I care more for entertainment value than keeping track of all the little discrepencies. When the discrepencies are big, they bother me, but the little stuff? Pfft.

 

[Luther Sloan]

Nerys

Yes. It's a prequel series because it takes place in the 22nd Century. However, the producers never spelled it out exactly for us on screen (like JJ Abram's did) of what type of prequel time line it was. Now, I think there were times they might have thought that this series was a part of the Original Core Trek Time Line and even openly expressed that viewpoint when they argued about mishandled canon with the fans. But their intentions during, before, and or after are irrelevant. Producers and writers often change their minds on many things outside of the series to fit the next episode they are writing or producing.

In addition, producers don't always agree on everything either.
I mean, should you go by what Rick Berman says or Gene Roddenberry? So the only real basis for canon is not in what this producer said or that producer said, but what it is in the series itself (flaws and all).

That is after all what we are talking about. The series. Not what each producer thought or said (or felt).

In my opinion (from carefully examining all of the series): I think Enterprise is a prequel alternate time line (That makes more sense if you watch the other series first).

At least that's my 2 cents worth anyways.

Side Note:

Oh, and just to be clear. I believe Enterprise to be canon. I just personally think the questionable canon on Enterprise, events in First Contact and the Temporal Cold War push Star Trek: Enterprise into the alternate time line camp.

But that's just me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nerys

Yes. It's a prequel series because it takes place in the 22nd Century. However, the producers never spelled it out exactly for us on screen (like JJ Abram's did) of what type of prequel time line it was. Now, I think there were times they might have thought that this series was a part of the Original Core Trek Time Line and even openly expressed that viewpoint when they argued about mishandled canon with the fans. But their intentions during, before, and or after are irrelevant. Producers and writers often change their minds on many things within a series to fit the next episode they are writing or producing.

In addition, producers don't always agree on everything either.
I mean, should you go by what Rick Berman says or Gene Roddenberry? So the only real basis for canon is not in what this producer said or that producer said, but what it is in the series itself (flaws and all).

That is after all what we are talking about. The series. Not what each producer thought or said.

In my opinion it is a prequel alternate time line (That only makes sense if you watch the other series first).

At least that's my 2 cents worth anyways.

Trust me, the producers dont give a damn or waste a second of thought about what constitutes " the Original Core Trek Time Line". Paramount/CBS will let them and us know what isn't canon. Because in the short and long run the producers are just employees and we are just consumers. As such we do not get a vote.

Also,flaws are irrelevent to canon as are disagreements between folks on staff. Every "flaw" from laughing Spock to James R Kirk to the Class of '78 and every other one is canon.

They also assume that anyone watching the show can figure out its a prequel to TOS set in the same continuity as TOS without having to break out the spoons. And you don't need a PhD in Trekology to understand the show.

 

[Luther Sloan]

No offense, but I am not even sure how to respond to that.



Anyways, let's move on...

 

[Nerys Myk]

No offense, but I am not even sure how to respond to that.



Anyways, let's move on...

Why would I be offended?

 

[Middleman]

Trust me, the producers dont give a damn or waste a second of thought about what constitutes " the Original Core Trek Time Line". Paramount/CBS will let them and us know what isn't canon. Because in the short and long run the producers are just employees and we are just consumers. As such we do not get a vote.

I'd go opne step further and remind everyone that in the end, Trek is a business and it only goal is making money. Therefore what becomes canon (or it's flaws) is what TPTB figure will draw an audience and thus revenues. Playing to the "Canonistas" (for lack of a better term) wont bring in enough of an audience to recoup costs, much less make a profit.

Also,flaws are irrelevant to canon as are disagreements between folks on staff. Every "flaw" from laughing Spock to James R Kirk to the Class of '78 and every other one is canon.

Very true.

They also assume that anyone watching the show can figure out its a prequel to TOS set in the same continuity as TOS without having to break out the spoons. And you don't need a PhD in Trekology to understand the show.

However, there is a very vocal segment of the fan base who refuse to accept what is the obvious and must be spoon feed. They can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Luther Sloan]

Nerys & Middleman:

Check out my rebuttal at the following link...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3989813&postcount=170

Thank you.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nerys & Middleman:

Check out my rebuttal at the following link...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3989813&postcount=170

Thank you.

What, you cant answer them here? In the place they were asked?

 

[Luther Sloan]

What, you cant answer them here? In the place they were asked?

Nerys:

Check out my unofficial thread rules here in my original post...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3983224&postcount=1

 

[Luther Sloan]

Updated Poll Results: Star Trek Enterprise (Prequel Series) ...

Is canon that fits flawlessly within the Core Trek Time Line =15
Is canon that fits somewhat within the Core Trek Time Line =7
Is canon that is an Altered First Contact Time Line =0
Is canon that is still an Altered Temporal Cold War Time Line =1
Is canon that is both an Altered FC and TCW Time Line = 3
Is not canon no matter what the studio says =0
Is just a TV show. I really don't care about canon =6
Is a huge mistake. That is best to be forgotten =1


Bonus Voting Option:

It's canon flaws are not any greater than the rest of Trek =1

 

[Nerys Myk]

What, you cant answer them here? In the place they were asked?

Nerys:

Check out my unofficial thread rules here in my original post...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3983224&postcount=1

The rules I follow are the ones set up by the folks who run this BBS. They'll let us know when someone can mini-mod a thread.

 

[Saquist]

So if I was given the chance: I would have personally revised my vote from Star Trek: Enterprise being a "First Contact Time Line" to it being a "First Contact Time Line and a Temporal Cold War Time Line."

Cause clearly the Xindi incident that wasn't supposed to happen is still effecting this time line.

So this little tidbit just re-enforces my opinion that the producers didn't want to openly spell it out that Enterprise was an altered time because they either didn't want to admit their mistakes on the show, and or they wanted to play it safe with the series.

I think we only have Dainels word on that.

Do you honestly think the producers feel Enterprise is part of an "altered timeline'"? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that they don't. Mostly because they don't look at this stuff the way fans do. Their mindset towards the work is different. I will go further and say that in their minds they created Enterprise as prequel to TOS. The inclusion of time travel elements do not change that.

There mind set is clear.
Put out a product the details are unimportant.
But the product you're putting out doesn't agree with a large portion of the customer base you've created.

You're losing your customers...make it write it's that simple.
Anything else is hard-headed of the producers and if you read those interviews with Berman and Braga that's exactly how they responded to the Fan's concerns. As iff they didn't care at all and it reflects in the work.

 

[Mach5]

There mind set is clear.

Where?

 

[Middleman]

Updated Poll Results: Star Trek Enterprise (Prequel Series) ...

Is canon that fits flawlessly within the Core Trek Time Line =15
Is canon that fits somewhat within the Core Trek Time Line =7
Is canon that is an Altered First Contact Time Line =0
Is canon that is still an Altered Temporal Cold War Time Line =1
Is canon that is both an Altered FC and TCW Time Line = 3
Is not canon no matter what the studio says =0
Is just a TV show. I really don't care about canon =6
Is a huge mistake. That is best to be forgotten =1


Bonus Voting Option:

It's canon flaws are not any greater than the rest of Trek =1

I guess that makes it pretty clear how people here feel.

 

[Mach5]

I wonder why does the user who voted "huge mistake" even bother reading the ENT forum...

 

[Saquist]

There mind set is clear.

Where?

In the part of the post you purposely left out.

I wonder why does the user who voted "huge mistake" even bother reading the ENT forum...

For the same reason people who do like the show post in the forum.

Updated Poll Results: Star Trek Enterprise (Prequel Series) ...

Is canon that fits flawlessly within the Core Trek Time Line =15
Is canon that fits somewhat within the Core Trek Time Line =7
Is canon that is an Altered First Contact Time Line =0
Is canon that is still an Altered Temporal Cold War Time Line =1
Is canon that is both an Altered FC and TCW Time Line = 3
Is not canon no matter what the studio says =0
Is just a TV show. I really don't care about canon =6
Is a huge mistake. That is best to be forgotten =1


Bonus Voting Option:

It's canon flaws are not any greater than the rest of Trek =1

I guess that makes it pretty clear how people here feel.

The majority shows that considerable number of people that voted really don't care about the show or consider it an altered version of the original Star Trek premise.

It's still pretty much half and half though.

 

[Luther Sloan]

I guess that makes it pretty clear how people here feel.

Middleman:

Okay. You really don't need to be giving me attitude dude.
I am aware of the fact that most people on various forums were accepting of Enterprise long before I posted here. Besides, I am after all the one who posted the figures, too. In fact, I respected your opinion and told you to enjoy the show. You don't need to get cute and rub it in my face, man.

 

[SFRabid]

The majority shows that considerable number of people that voted really don't care about the show or consider it an altered version of the original Star Trek premise.

It's still pretty much half and half though.

What numbers are you looking at? Clearly not the result of the poll.
1 - that does not like Enterprise
0 - that thought is does not fit canon at all
4 - canon with specifit altered time lines
22 - canon or close canon
6 - canon is not that big of an issue

 

[Saquist]

The majority shows that considerable number of people that voted really don't care about the show or consider it an altered version of the original Star Trek premise.

It's still pretty much half and half though.

What numbers are you looking at? Clearly not the result of the poll.
1 - that does not like Enterprise
0 - that thought is does not fit canon at all
4 - canon with specifit altered time lines
22 - canon or close canon
6 - canon is not that big of an issue

Think again.
25 percent of the voters believe that ENT is anything but what the producers say it was which was NON ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, and CANON,

The other 25 percent don't care...."It's just a TV show"
That's not a favorable vote that's apathy.

The positive result is that something less than 50 percent believe it's EXACTLY what the producers say it is.

 

[SFRabid]

The majority shows that considerable number of people that voted really don't care about the show or consider it an altered version of the original Star Trek premise.

It's still pretty much half and half though.

What numbers are you looking at? Clearly not the result of the poll.
1 - that does not like Enterprise
0 - that thought is does not fit canon at all
4 - canon with specifit altered time lines
22 - canon or close canon
6 - canon is not that big of an issue

Think again.
25 percent of the voters believe that ENT is anything but what the producers say it was which was NON ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, and CANON,

Not canon = 0 votes.
Altered time lines = 4 votes.
How do you get 25 percent?

The other 25 percent don't care...."It's just a TV show"
That's not a favorable vote that's apathy.

The positive result is that something less than 50 percent believe it's EXACTLY what the producers say it is.

The choice is "Is just a TV show. I really don't care about canon." You cannot remove part of the specification for that choice and twist it to your view. I don't obsess over canon but that does not mean I don't like the show or that I am apathetic.

Could it be that a lack of support for your "I hate Enterprise" campaign is driving you to see things that are not there?

If you don't like Enterprise, fine. That is your right. If you want to come here and tell everyone how bad you think Enterprise is, fine. Seen it before. If you cannot understand how someone could like a show that you hate, that is your problem. You should realize that one person does not determine the value of any art form. If you try to twist votes to fit your cause then you are crossing the line. I don't think Enterprise is totally canon. I don't think TOS or TNG are totally canon. I also don't obsess over canon. It's not canon that determines the quality of the show. I do see that some people get bent out of shape over little variances. For anyone that looses sleep at night over canon I recommend a visit to the local community mental health center.