Ditto.
What is your view of Enterprise?
- Thread starter Luther Sloan
- Start date
Ditto.
http://img187.yfrog.com/img187/7647/duffy.png
I guess it would...
I don't care if ENT fits anywhere or not...
In my opinion, First Contact changed the timeline, so did TCW. I see nothing wrong with that.
And people who write Trek novels and comics. They're the only ones who actually need to think about those things, since they're bound by it. Anyone else doesn't have a good reason to lose any sleep over canon.
Are you admitting you're daffy?
I guess it would...
I don't care if ENT fits anywhere or not...
In my opinion, First Contact changed the timeline, so did TCW. I see nothing wrong with that.
Well, to each his own. I don't think First Contact or the TWC altered the timeline.
I actually didn't know what to think of ENT at first. I automatically knew it was canon and was an official part of the Star Trek Universe from the start, but how well it fit was a matter of debate for me. I think I ultimately decided that it was apocryphal to me. I never dismissed that the events in the series happened, however, but I could imagine them differently visually.
But to me, what brought ENT firmly in line with the rest of the Prime Universe was the fourth season, in particular "A Mirror, Darkly," that was basically a direct continuation of the TOS episode "The Tholian Web" and simultaneously was a prequel to "Mirror, Mirror." Even the bridge of NX-01 itself eventually incorporated the TOS-style blinky lights, which I really appreciated.
I could only imagine that if the show had continued, we would have seen even more connections, IMO.
But to me, what brought ENT firmly in line with the rest of the Prime Universe was the fourth season, in particular "A Mirror, Darkly," that was basically a direct continuation of the TOS episode "The Tholian Web" and simultaneously was a prequel to "Mirror, Mirror." Even the bridge of NX-01 itself eventually incorporated the TOS-style blinky lights, which I really appreciated.
I could only imagine that if the show had continued, we would have seen even more connections, IMO.
Oh, the predestination paradox, hell yeah! There's a reason why they call it "paradox," you know...
Or you could say that TCW created a new timeline that in fact is the one we know as "Prime"... But then, there's still the whole issue of the Xindi attack, one of the most pivotal moments in history (even more pivotal than the Eugenics wars since it is de facto Earth's first interstellar conflict), which, unlike the Eugenics wars, never gets mentioned in any of the 24 "future" seasons of Star Trek and ten movies.
BTW, I'm totally with Bob Orci on all this time travel / alternate realities stuff... Just check out this quote of his:
Star Trek IV is an interesting case in that it is MORE consistent with the idea of a multiverse in the following way: Kirk and Spock travel to the past, take two whales, thus creating an alternate timeline in which those two whales (and a Marine Biologist) are missing. Our gang then returns to THEIR ORIGINAL UNIVERSE, and the whales tell the probe what to go do with itself. In a way, this is a less irresponsible interpretation, because otherwise, they are necessarily playing loosey goosey with interfering with their present by taking the potential grandmother of the doctor who cures cancer out of history and really changing their own universe! Kirk could in theory cease to exist by removing someone from the past. Not so in the multiverse.
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Thats exactly what I'm saying. The timeline Daniels talks about is not the Prime one.
The Xindi attack simply never came up in conversation. Not every "pivitol" event in history is going to be discussed by the handfull of people we see in various movies and shows.
Or so you believe. There was no on-screen evidence of that.
There were, like, thousands of conversations, dozens of historic conflicts covered...
Oh, for the love of God, who gives a sh#t anyway...
Maybe. Obviously from what Daniel's says things are not proceeding as known. By IAMD we seem to have evidence that the ENT timeline is the TOS one.
Yes dozens out of who knows how many.
Just having a discusion. I'm not out to create world peace or cure cancer.Oh, for the love of God, who gives a sh#t anyway...
As a piece of fiction the "history" we see in Star Trek is 99.9 % retroactive. There is no "history" until a line of dialog establishes it. Since there is no conflicting dialog about the Xindi War, whats the problem?
This is 100% true...
Still, this whole Xindi thing has that "this wasn't supposed to happen" feel to it... At least to me.
I wasn't attacking you there, it's just... I caught myself sounding like a canon buff, and I really couldn't care less about any of that... I'm perfectly aware that this is all just TV entertainment and I love it very much for what it is...
I voted "Is canon that fits somewhat within the Core Trek Time Line.".
Enterprise wasn't a perfect fit with the so called Core Trek time line, but that only due to the passage of time and creative differences in the production of the various series. Having said that, there is no reason to doubt that the NX-01 crew pre-dated the crew of the NCC-1701 even though it was never spoken of.
I don't believe in the "Altered First Contact Time Line". I believe that FC created and endless time line loop that was always a part the original time line. I also believe that the events of the TCW repaired themselves (as stated by Daniels).
In the end Star trek is just a TV show. We shouldn't care about the canon as long as we are entertained. If we spend too much time on this canon crap, that means we really need to get some more imprtant things going on in our lives.
Enterprise wasn't a perfect fit with the so called Core Trek time line, but that only due to the passage of time and creative differences in the production of the various series. Having said that, there is no reason to doubt that the NX-01 crew pre-dated the crew of the NCC-1701 even though it was never spoken of.
I don't believe in the "Altered First Contact Time Line". I believe that FC created and endless time line loop that was always a part the original time line. I also believe that the events of the TCW repaired themselves (as stated by Daniels).
In the end Star trek is just a TV show. We shouldn't care about the canon as long as we are entertained. If we spend too much time on this canon crap, that means we really need to get some more imprtant things going on in our lives.
Yeah, the thing I didn't like about the TCW: is that we didn't get to see what those changes within the time line were on Enterprise. The whole Temporal Cold War was like this big black smoke creature that was all terribly mysterious but yet frustrating at the same time.
Sure, certain things were supposed to be set back to normal a short time after the Xindi Incident. But we didn't see what those changes were.
I fact, from what I could tell (besides the incident in Storm Front). Nothing really changed at all...
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/60851
I mean, it was just said that Archer stopped Vosk's damage to the time line and the TCW was coming to an end. But it didn't tell us how, why, where, or in what way.
Side Note:
Also, the Xindi Incident that wasn't supposed to happen still ended up existing within this time line after the end (or the coming of the end) of the TCW.
So my question is, just how many other things within the Temporal Cold War that wasn't supposed to happen still stayed the same? I mean, the Xindi incident wasn't supposed to happen. But yet it still remained after the end of the TCW.
That's why I think Enterprise is an altered time line still. The proof is in the show itself.
Sure, certain things were supposed to be set back to normal a short time after the Xindi Incident. But we didn't see what those changes were.
I fact, from what I could tell (besides the incident in Storm Front). Nothing really changed at all...
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/60851
I mean, it was just said that Archer stopped Vosk's damage to the time line and the TCW was coming to an end. But it didn't tell us how, why, where, or in what way.
Side Note:
Also, the Xindi Incident that wasn't supposed to happen still ended up existing within this time line after the end (or the coming of the end) of the TCW.
So my question is, just how many other things within the Temporal Cold War that wasn't supposed to happen still stayed the same? I mean, the Xindi incident wasn't supposed to happen. But yet it still remained after the end of the TCW.
That's why I think Enterprise is an altered time line still. The proof is in the show itself.
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So if I was given the chance: I would have personally revised my vote from Star Trek: Enterprise being a "First Contact Time Line" to it being a "First Contact Time Line and a Temporal Cold War Time Line."
Cause clearly the Xindi incident that wasn't supposed to happen is still effecting this time line.
In fact, this little tidbit just re-enforces my opinion that the producers didn't want to openly spell it out that Enterprise was an altered time because they either (a.) didn't want to admit their mistakes on the show, and or (b.) they wanted to play it safe with the series.
Cause clearly the Xindi incident that wasn't supposed to happen is still effecting this time line.
In fact, this little tidbit just re-enforces my opinion that the producers didn't want to openly spell it out that Enterprise was an altered time because they either (a.) didn't want to admit their mistakes on the show, and or (b.) they wanted to play it safe with the series.
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Saquist
Commodore
I think we only have Dainels word on that.
Do you honestly think the producers feel Enterprise is part of an "altered timeline'"? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that they don't. Mostly because they don't look at this stuff the way fans do. Their mindset towards the work is different. I will go further and say that in their minds they created Enterprise as prequel to TOS. The inclusion of time travel elements do not change that.
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