What is Star Trek and its future?

[Warped9]

I know that disappoints some, but thats what it is and thats what the broader audience recognizes. It's not predominantly politics and war (seen in DS9) and gritty and nihilistic like nuBSG and Sopranos.

Lol DS9 not star trek lolz.

All I can say is, a new star trek, is not gonna be defined by the old star trek otherwise it's not worth making.

You have your opinion and I have mine. And nothing I said invalidates something new.

There's also a matter of the title: STAR TREK

Those words are pretty evocative of what the whole thing is basically about. It isn't likely to be about hanging about on the ground or in orbit grumbling about your problems and waiting for things to come to you.

 

[Brainsucker]

In my opinion, Star Trek is about the Enterprise and her crews (or a ship with design look like the Enterprise in TOS or TNG). Or something that happen inside their established canon / universe.

So you can throw anything inside it, including a new universe and fresh canon that has no relation with the previous universe, as long as you have the Enterprise that look like the Enterprise in TOS and TNG, and the tech that feel like what Star Trek has been established, it is Star Trek. Oh and, one more. The crews with red, yellow, and blue T-Shirt.

OR

You can create anything. From something that has no relation with exploration, a life in a colony, something that happen in Klingon, or Romulan, etc, as long as it is inside the established canon / universe, it's also Star Trek. That's way, I say that DS9 and Voyager are Star Trek.

 

[Warped9]

If you stay in one place even while staying with previous continuity you can indeed call it Trek, but will folks watch it given DS9 didn't hold onto them?

 

[Brainsucker]

If you stay in one place even while staying with previous continuity you can indeed call it Trek, but will folks watch it given DS9 didn't hold onto them?

DS9 actually had some Trek, with the Defiant.

But maybe you right. DS9 is not Star Trek, DS9 is Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Just read the title, they don't call it Star Trek, they call it Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The proposition that DS9 isn't real Star Trek is just another instance of the No True Scotsman fallacy. DS9 treated and elaborated upon many of the themes about life in the Federation begun in both TNG and TOS. Much of the drama revolved around the tension between on the one hand the desire to hold onto the virtues of the ideal utopia established in TOS and TNG and on the other the temptation to accept morally compromised pragmatism for the sake of survival. It had other focuses too, particular to DS9, but still just as much Star Trek as any other Star Trek show.

 

[Autistoid]

If you stay in one place even while staying with previous continuity you can indeed call it Trek, but will folks watch it given DS9 didn't hold onto them?

DS9 didn't get attention because it was blatantly ahead of it's time in format.

If you can find any more of a blatant example of a show that would of faired much better in the hbo era I'd love to hear of it.


Massive ensemble casts, complex plots and characters,serialized narrative, etc.

The most blatant and obvious faults of the show were it was near impossible to watch in old formats, and the fact that the show had so much filler.

This would never of happened in if there were 13 episodes a year instead of 26.

The idea that it wasn't star trek is a total joke.

Exploration isn't just collecting postcards. Granted if that's what you think trek is about, I'm sorry we see trek in a fundamentally different light, and quite frankly I'm growing rather tired of having to justify what trek is, when I clearly want to take it deeper and farther than before.

It's about taking time to examine a real dynamic of a species, it's society etc. In DS9 we got an extremely deep understanding of Caradassian's, bajoran's and the founders. Not to mention countless other species that we truly got to explore.

That's of course ignoring that the show had a much better advancement of the aesops from TOS and brought things to an adult level.

 

[wulfio]

If you can find any more of a blatant example of a show that would of faired much better in the hbo era I'd love to hear of it.

Space: Above and Beyond.

I'd say Season 3 of Seaquest as well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

DS9 didn't get attention because it was blatantly ahead of it's time in format.

If you can find any more of a blatant example of a show that would of faired much better in the hbo era I'd love to hear of it.


Massive ensemble casts, complex plots and characters,serialized narrative, etc.

Are you actually saying that DS9 was a pioneer in these things?

 

[Warped9]

DS9 didn't get attention because it was blatantly ahead of it's time in format.

If you can find any more of a blatant example of a show that would of faired much better in the hbo era I'd love to hear of it.


Massive ensemble casts, complex plots and characters,serialized narrative, etc.

Are you actually saying that DS9 was a pioneer in these things?

Hmm, sounds like a primetime drama like Dallas or Hill Street Blues.

One can say DS9 expanded on such ideas, but it didn't invent them. And DS9 could capitalize on spinning off from TNG when TNG was popular. The question then becomes would something like DS9 work if it was launched cold and not piggybacking on the popularity of a concurrent existing popular series?

This entails another question: does something new have to be tied to previous continuity or can it start a new cntinuity of its own?

 

[Autistoid]

DS9 didn't get attention because it was blatantly ahead of it's time in format.

If you can find any more of a blatant example of a show that would of faired much better in the hbo era I'd love to hear of it.


Massive ensemble casts, complex plots and characters,serialized narrative, etc.

Are you actually saying that DS9 was a pioneer in these things?

I'm saying it was ahead of it's time.

Pioneering is a meaningless word.

However if you wanna name any show with a budget and scale that was similiar to DS9's I'd love to here it.

The comparison to B5 and the like is a total joke.

I don't think for a second anyone would confuse B5 with elements that can be found in shows like the wire.

However contrasting DS9 to a show like the wire and there are a ton of direct parraelells in the two shows.

 

[Harvey]

Hill Street Blues wants its money back.

 

[Warped9]

Hill Street Blues wants its money back.

Yep.

 

[Autistoid]

Hill Street Blues wants its money back.

That wasn't rhetorical I'm actually interested.

Regardless DS9 was clearly ahead of it's time.

 

[T'Girl]

DS9 was clearly ahead of it's time.

In what ways?

What did DS9 do that wasn't old hat by the time DS9 arrived on the scene?

 

[Warped9]

Regardless DS9 was clearly ahead of it's time.

No, it merely applied the concept to SF.

Candidly the great precusor to such a concept are daytime soap operas. And it could well predate that.

- Newspaper comic strips had ongoing story lines.
- The 1930s onward gave us the popular matinee seriels.
- Comic books have long had ongoing multi-issue story llines.
- At one time novels could be serielized in magazines.

Soap operas can have large casts with multiple ongoing story lines and they, too, periodically address societal issues. The 1970s saw the advent of popular miniseries such as Roots, Rch Man Poor Man, The Thorn Birds, Shogun and others. Then we started to get the prime time soaps such as Dallas, Dynasty and others only instead of being broadcast daily they were broadcast weekly. This story structure began being integrated into other series such as the aforementioned Hill Street Blues.

All of this predates DS9. So what DS9 and B5 did was apply this structure to SF. They expanded on an already well established idea. I can't speak for DS9, but it's well known that B5 had an ending to the series already planned before the series even started airing. Granted they had to make some adjustments due to unforseen circumstances that arose, but they still got to the ending essentially already planned out.

 

[BillJ]

However contrasting DS9 to a show like the wire and there are a ton of direct parraelells in the two shows.

 

[Autistoid]

Regardless DS9 was clearly ahead of it's time.

No, it merely applied the concept to SF.

Candidly the great precusor to such a concept are daytime soap operas. And it could well predate that.

All of this predates DS9. So what DS9 and B5 did was apply this structure to SF. They expanded on an already well established idea.

Anything can be reduced to just statements.

Winning a gold medal is just running really fast, and doing it more faster than everyone else.

Becoming a billionaire is just like working at mcdonalds only they get paided a whole lot more.

The point wasn't that DS9 was revolutionary.

The point was that the show would of had a much greater audience if it was made 10 years later. There's opinions and than there is a long records of casts and plots written down on paper, with large budgets attached to them.

 

[Nerys Myk]

DS9 didn't get attention because it was blatantly ahead of it's time in format.

If you can find any more of a blatant example of a show that would of faired much better in the hbo era I'd love to hear of it.


Massive ensemble casts, complex plots and characters,serialized narrative, etc.

Are you actually saying that DS9 was a pioneer in these things?

I'm saying it was ahead of it's time.

Pioneering is a meaningless word.

However if you wanna name any show with a budget and scale that was similiar to DS9's I'd love to here it.

The comparison to B5 and the like is a total joke.

I don't think for a second anyone would confuse B5 with elements that can be found in shows like the wire.

However contrasting DS9 to a show like the wire and there are a ton of direct parraelells in the two shows.

No it wasn't. There were several award winning show before it that were doing those things earlier and better. The aforementioned Hill St Blues as well as St. Elsewhere and LA Law. Shows like ER and the Sopranos that were contemporaneous with DS9 were also doing it better. DS9 was in the middle of the pack when to comes to the development of the serial weekly drama as a driving force in TV. One could argue it was only half-heartedly a serial drama. It kept one foot in the episodic format.

 

[Warped9]

Regardless DS9 was clearly ahead of it's time.

No, it merely applied the concept to SF.

Candidly the great precusor to such a concept are daytime soap operas. And it could well predate that.

All of this predates DS9. So what DS9 and B5 did was apply this structure to SF. They expanded on an already well established idea.

Anything can be reduced to just statements.

Winning a gold medal is just running really fast, and doing it more faster than everyone else.

Becoming a billionaire is just like working at mcdonalds only they get paided a whole lot more.

The point wasn't that DS9 was revolutionary.

The point was that the show would of had a much greater audience if it was made 10 years later. There's opinions and than there is a long records of casts and plots written down on paper, with large budgets attached to them.

I can see your mind is already closed to the possibility that you're wrong. If someone offers you evidence contrary to your assumption you simply dismiss it.

Oh, and by the way you don't say "more faster." Someone can be "faster" or "even faster" or perhaps "more fast," but they can't be "more faster" just as they can't "get paided."

 

[BillJ]

The point was that the show would of had a much greater audience if it was made 10 years later.

Not if it had been the same show. Much of Deep Space Nine was simply dull. They could hit it out of the park from time to time, but overall, it was just dull.