What If TNG Was Based During the Lost Era?

[fireproof78]

TOS wasn't post scarcity though. And tbh TOS had some questionable ideas, like Romulans lacking warp drive. So I take some of it with a grain of salt. I just don't see the appeal of a dozen flash in the pan starship classes vs a few reliable and familiar ones with a new one every now and then

It's not a matter of appeal. It's a matter of technological shift. One I expect when I can reconfigure things however I want.

Does it appeal? No, not to me, but I loathe a lot of changes. That doesn't change how technological growth can and does impact attitudes. Ten years ago I didn't use a smartphone. I didn't purchase one as they were too expensive. I friend of mine gave me one that he wasn't using and I tinkered with it. Now, I have one for work, for home, and my wife's business. All for less than I spent on my first one.

 

[MikHutch]

It's not a matter of appeal. It's a matter of technological shift. One I expect when I can reconfigure things however I want.

Does it appeal? No, not to me, but I loathe a lot of changes. That doesn't change how technological growth can and does impact attitudes. Ten years ago I didn't use a smartphone. I didn't purchase one as they were too expensive. I friend of mine gave me one that he wasn't using and I tinkered with it. Now, I have one for work, for home, and my wife's business. All for less than I spent on my first one.

But you think that's why the writers are doing that? Or is it just because they got a bigger budget in First Contact?

 

[fireproof78]

But you think that's why the writers are doing that? Or is it just because they got a bigger budget in First Contact?

What I think is that it comes down to them being artists and wanting their artists to be able to explore. It's fun to put your own spin on thing so they do. And leave us fans to come up with a justification, which we usually do.

 

[MikHutch]

What I think is that it comes down to them being artists and wanting their artists to be able to explore. It's fun to put your own spin on thing so they do. And leave us fans to come up with a justification, which we usually do.

True, I guess I just find the quick turnaround post FC harder to justify even with replicators

It might be due to preferring to see ship classes recur enough to be familiar with them. That's part of the fun of ST for me

And I really wish we saw some more non-human Federation classes in 25th century trek. All we got is the T'Pau type and that one Trill ship in TNG. No Bolians ships despite how ubiquitous they are for a background race. I'd prefer that kind of variety than 20 variations on a saucer and 2 nacelles

 

[fireproof78]

True, I guess I just find the quick turnaround post FC harder to justify even with replicators

It might be due to preferring to see ship classes recur enough to be familiar with them. That's part of the fun of ST for me

And I really wish we saw some more non-human Federation classes in 25th century trek. All we got is the T'Pau type and that one Trill ship in TNG. No Bolians ships despite how ubiquitous they are for a background race. I'd prefer that kind of variety than 20 variations on a saucer and 2 nacelles

Agreed and I would welcome more variation across pretty much every time period. It's part of why the Klingons bother me less. Heck, I'd even settle for someone trying to get the writers a FASA or other RPG manual for ideas.

 

[MikHutch]

Agreed and I would welcome more variation across pretty much every time period. It's part of why the Klingons bother me less. Heck, I'd even settle for someone trying to get the writers a FASA or other RPG manual for ideas.

The thing is ENT actually gave us more Vulcan and Andorians ships, and even DSC showed some Vulcan ones. But despite the talk of including other races, TOS gives us nothing on that front and TNG and DS9 barely do. I hope any follow up to Picard does a bit better in that regard

 

[tafkats]

Re: the old designs in TNG, it seems like it's mostly the Excelsiors (and specifically, that one shot of the Enterprise next to an Excelsior-class that was used for the Cairo, the Hood, the Repulse, and however many other ships). TNG happens 80-85 years after TSFS, when the Excelsior class was brand-new. The USS Nimitz is 48 years old and still in service, scheduled to be removed from the battle force during its 50th year and completely inactivated a few years after that. And the newest of the Nimitz-class carriers was commissioned in 2009. So it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for a bunch of Excelsiors, though not the earliest ones, to still be hanging around as the "workhorses of the Fleet."

 

[MikHutch]

Re: the old designs in TNG, it seems like it's mostly the Excelsiors (and specifically, that one shot of the Enterprise next to an Excelsior-class that was used for the Cairo, the Hood, the Repulse, and however many other ships). TNG happens 80-85 years after TSFS, when the Excelsior class was brand-new. The USS Nimitz is 48 years old and still in service, scheduled to be removed from the battle force during its 50th year and completely inactivated a few years after that. And the newest of the Nimitz-class carriers was commissioned in 2009. So it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for a bunch of Excelsiors, though not the earliest ones, to still be hanging around as the "workhorses of the Fleet."

Good point. A lot of those Excelsiors and Mirandas might've been built later.

Speaking thereof, I wonder if the Miranda couldve shown up during the TOS era

 

[fireproof78]

So it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for a bunch of Excelsiors, though not the earliest ones, to still be hanging around as the "workhorses of the Fleet."

It's a small stretch, and hardly by biggest gripe against TNG. It's something that just stands out to me if I watch an episode and see an Excelsior or a Reliant. Not saying it isn't possible; of course it is. It's just that both in universe evidence as well as the aesthetics stand out to me.

That's my thing.

 

[Dukhat]

Re: the old designs in TNG, it seems like it's mostly the Excelsiors (and specifically, that one shot of the Enterprise next to an Excelsior-class that was used for the Cairo, the Hood, the Repulse, and however many other ships). TNG happens 80-85 years after TSFS, when the Excelsior class was brand-new. The USS Nimitz is 48 years old and still in service, scheduled to be removed from the battle force during its 50th year and completely inactivated a few years after that. And the newest of the Nimitz-class carriers was commissioned in 2009. So it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for a bunch of Excelsiors, though not the earliest ones, to still be hanging around as the "workhorses of the Fleet."

TNG gave the impression that the old TMP-era ships had been relegated to lesser duties by that time, such as transports (Excelsior), supply ships (Miranda, Oberth), science vessels (Miranda, Oberth), and target ships (Constellation). It was only during DS9 that a huge number of Excelsiors and Mirandas seemed to still be in service as front-line vessels during wartime (either that, or they had all been previously decommissioned and brought in to use for the war effort, which would have made present-day Starfleet sorely lacking in terms of newer ships in operation circa 2360.)

 

[Legate Duhmar]

When it comes to ship variations, it was extremely challenging and expensive in TNGs era as all the ships were physical models and re-using Miranda or Excelsior shots was a lot cheaper than building custom models for each episode, so I forgive TNG for not showing us as much as it probably could have. Part of the appeal of later DS9 and ENT was the ability to portray ships so much easier with cgi insert shots becoming practical and cheap.

 

[Imaus]

When it comes to ship variations, it was extremely challenging and expensive in TNGs era as all the ships were physical models and re-using Miranda or Excelsior shots was a lot cheaper than building custom models for each episode, so I forgive TNG for not showing us as much as it probably could have. Part of the appeal of later DS9 and ENT was the ability to portray ships so much easier with cgi insert shots becoming practical and cheap.

TNG did make Post-Movie era ships, to be fair, but broke them for wolf 359; and few if any of those appeared for the Dominion War. The Freedom, Niagara, Cheyenne, Springfield, and Challenger classes were explicitly made to be galaxy class contemporaries or near so, but other than the space junkyard I don't think we ever see them again?

 

[tomalak301]

I want to see the Nerendra 3 battle. It's such a pivitol moment in Trek history that I wanted to see what exactly happened.

 

[JesterFace]

I want to see the Nerendra 3 battle. It's such a pivitol moment in Trek history that I wanted to see what exactly happened.

That would be interesting, Enterprice-C is in the battle and perhaps disappears for a tiny moment and visits future as seen in 'Yesterday's Enterprise'.

 

[MikHutch]

That would be interesting, Enterprice-C is in the battle and perhaps disappears for a tiny moment and visits future as seen in 'Yesterday's Enterprise'.

We never saw the Romulans intermediary between the BOP and the D'deridex

 

[Nerys Myk]

If Roddenberry was in charge, I assume it would be closer to his Phase II/TMP approach. Which is more or less TNG anyway. Unless the movie folks were willing to give up the Enterprise, no 1701 for this Generation.
Not a fan of the Excelsior design, so I'd hope Picard wouldn't get it. So a new ship. Maybe the USS Galaxy. Long range explorer
I'd also hope they'd go with what, IIRC was the original TNG concept, being out there in unexplored space. Keep the callbacks to TOS and journeys back to UFP territory to a minimum. New planets. New species. I think all the TNG characters would work fine as they are. Yes. even Wesley. Maybe save Worf until after TUC comes out. Going back to Phase II. Troi as a Deltan? Rather not see Data as Xon, though. Keep him an android but one of unknown alien origins.

 

[MikHutch]

If Roddenberry was in charge, I assume it would be closer to his Phase II/TMP approach. Which is more or less TNG anyway. Unless the movie folks were willing to give up the Enterprise, no 1701 for this Generation.
Not a fan of the Excelsior design, so I'd hope Picard wouldn't get it. So a new ship. Maybe the USS Galaxy. Long range explorer
I'd also hope they'd go with what, IIRC was the original TNG concept, being out there in unexplored space. Keep the callbacks to TOS and journeys back to UFP territory to a minimum. New planets. New species. I think all the TNG characters would work fine as they are. Yes. even Wesley. Maybe save Worf until after TUC comes out. Going back to Phase II. Troi as a Deltan? Rather not see Data as Xon, though. Keep him an android but one of unknown alien origins.

The Deltans were so bleh. And TNG didn't really reuse many old races anyways. I think Worf might've still been around early on though

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Deltans were so bleh. And TNG didn't really reuse many old races anyways. I think Worf might've still been around early on though

He was a last minute addition. Most of the cast was set and had begun filming when Dorn was hired. When he was on the Shuttlepod Show he recounted how awkward it was at first.

 

[MikHutch]

He was a last minute addition. Most of the cast was set and had begun filming when Dorn was hired. When he was on the Shuttlepod Show he recounted how awkward it was at first.

Yeah I heard Roddenberry didn't even want the Klingons back

 

[Takeru]

He was a last minute addition. Most of the cast was set and had begun filming when Dorn was hired. When he was on the Shuttlepod Show he recounted how awkward it was at first.

And it shows, Worf has no defined job and not even a place on the bridge, he just hangs around awkwardly in the background and attends senior staff meetings for unknown reasons in the first season.