What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[Tiran O'Saurus]

But, we can speculate on quite a number of things, like Hodgkins law of planetary development, The Preservers, and Earths relocated from an alternate universe for whatever reason we can make up.

Okay, but why would that only revolve around Earth? Why are there a thousand planets just like Earth, but no planets featuring societies just like pre-Surak Vulcan, or ancient Andoria, or Cardassia in its democratic days? Because it's a TV show. If you want an in-universe explanation, the easiest one is that Earth isn't special, quite the opposite, societies will almost always move along the exact same path and Earth is just one of many.

 

[The Wormhole]

And really, Hoggkins Law of Planetary Development is some whacky horseshit when you actually think about it. Most people don't think about it, they're just entertained by watching Space Rome, and that's fine, Space Rome was an alright episode. But let's not pretend that by mentioning Hodgkins that episode is more legitimate than a musical which doesn't mention some sort of bogus scientific or sociological theory in order to explain how generating music is possible.

And really, when you get down to it, this whole thing is just a classic case of "if I like it, it's legit, if I don't, it's not." People are okay with the whacky space anomalies and planets that developed parallel to Earth in the other shows because they like the 1966-2005 era of Star Trek while they are down on the musical episode because it's from the modern era, which they will refuse to allow themselves to like. Though at the same time, I'm forced to wonder, if Subspace Rhapsody had been an episode in Picard S3 or even Legacy (if that were a thing), would the same people currently complaining about it instead think of it as the Best Thing Ever and cite it as an example of Lord Terry's "Brilliance"?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's all about how they lie. The lie has to be told in a convincing way and it can't be too big. I would've been down on the musical episode if it was from Deep Space Nine, just like I'm down on the episodes Move Along Home, Dramatis Personae and Rivals, and the Voyager episode Threshold, and so on. Because I was left looking at the screen thinking 'What the hell is this?'

TOS has a real knack for presenting bizarre concepts like they're the most sensible thing in the world, but Miri and Omega Glory aren't exactly fan favourites, and sometimes the reason for that is because they take a step too far into absurdity.

 

[The Wormhole]

TOS has a real knack for presenting bizarre concepts like they're the most sensible thing in the world, but Miri and Omega Glory aren't exactly fan favourites, and sometimes the reason for that is because they take a step too far into absurdity.

Miri isn't hated because it's absurd, it's hated because it's just horrible. Meanwhile, Omega Glory gets criticized because it's the text book example of the accusation that Star Trek basically is just American imperialism in space. Though personally, even as a non-American I absolutely love Omega Glory. Damn fine episode.

 

[fireproof78]

Miri isn't hated because it's absurd, it's hated because it's just horrible. Meanwhile, Omega Glory gets criticized because it's the text book example of the accusation that Star Trek basically is just American imperialism in space. Though personally, even as a non-American I absolutely love Omega Glory. Damn fine episode.

Same here. And regardless of whether fans like it or not, it is still apart of Star Trek. It's still a part of the lie that this is the reality the characters has to engage with. And, hell, the Omega Glory is one of the biggest line in the sand around the Prime Directive, so it comes with a measure of weight, regardless of the American iconography.

Being absurd is Trek's bread and butter.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's all about how they lie. T

lie? What an odd way to describe fiction.

 

[Mojochi]

I still think if you're some kind of purist you should be mad at DS9 for abandoning the core premise & not star trekking lol

That would be like a Star Wars series about a group of Ewoks who just like wandering around meeting people or something

 

[HotRod]

I'm forced to wonder, if Subspace Rhapsody had been an episode in Picard S3 or even Legacy (if that were a thing), would the same people currently complaining about it instead think of it as the Best Thing Ever and cite it as an example of Lord Terry's "Brilliance"?

They'd be begging for Subspace Rhapsody II: Harmonic Boogaloo!

 

[Phoenix219]

They'd be begging for Subspace Rhapsody II: Harmonic Boogaloo!

no. no, we would not. it would suck regardless of what series it was attached to.

 

[HotRod]

no. no, we would not. it would suck regardless of what series it was attached to.

 

[cooleddie74]

Would I do the musical episode more than once? No. But dammit, the one time worked for me and it was a lot of silly fun, plus we got Anson Mount singing - which he admitted he's not good at so he was a great sport!

 

[Frontis]

I like it when Trek's just plain weird and even the explanation is weird and makes no sense.

That's what's powered much of Trek since 1964.

Ye, when even Spock's logic fails

 

[cooleddie74]

"It's like nothing we've ever encountered."

The Get Out of Jail Free card for every Trek series when the plot is bizarre. Just say even Federation science has no idea what's happening and roll with it.

 

[fireproof78]

I still think if you're some kind of purist you should be mad at DS9 for abandoning the core premise & not star trekking lol

That would be like a Star Wars series about a group of Ewoks who just like wandering around meeting people or something

The selective outrage is quite interesting. It's always fascinating to find the lines that make things not Trek, or too absurd for Trek.

Transporter? Fine, even when it creates duplicates, cures aging or merges people together.

Traveling to the center of the galaxy or outside? No big deal.

Meeting the devil? Not a problem.

American flag and founding documents? Yawn.

Genetic hijinks resulting in metamorphosis? Totally normal.

Thought as the basis of reality? Science!

A musical dimension? Too far.

 

[The Wormhole]

no. no, we would not. it would suck regardless of what series it was attached to.

Uh huh. The Cult of Terry already praises Picard S3 for doing the exact same things they've criticized the other modern shows for doing. If Picard S3 had a musical, the Cultists would be calling it the Best Trek Ever!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The selective outrage is quite interesting. It's always fascinating to find the lines that make things not Trek, or too absurd for Trek.

Sure, as long as you're not implying the audience is reacting wrong, or that they're determined to find things to complain about. You can learn a lot about writing science fiction by listening to people and figuring out what is really taking them out of stories.

Also meeting the devil was totally a problem, and travelling to the edge or centre of the galaxy only became an issue retroactively when later episodes set the speed limit much lower. And the fun with DNA episodes have always been a problem too now that I think about it. And the Omega Glory twist puts a lot of people off.

I agree with your point about people finding their own lines in different places, but you've picked some interesting examples.

Uh huh. The Cult of Terry already praises Picard S3 for doing the exact same things they've criticized the other modern shows for doing. If Picard S3 had a musical, the Cultists would be calling it the Best Trek Ever!!!!!!!!!

So? The regular people who liked Picard S3 would've had the same reactions to a Picard musical that they had to Strange New Worlds' musical, assuming everything else was equal. Things are rarely equal though, which is why 'the exact same things' is hardly ever true.

 

[fireproof78]

Uh huh. The Cult of Terry already praises Picard S3 for doing the exact same things they've criticized the other modern shows for doing. If Picard S3 had a musical, the Cultists would be calling it the Best Trek Ever!!!!!!!!!

I'm thinking many would consider it acknowledging Sir Patrick's time on stage and showcasing Spiner's talent.

Again, it's a hard line to make sense of. Absurdity is part of Trek. Why one is lesser than the other or makes a Trek less believable escapes me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I get the impression The Talosians, Trelane, the Organians, the Q and the Dowd should have no place in Star Trek.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I get the impression The Talosians, Trelane, the Organians, the Q and the Dowd should have no place in Star Trek.

If anyone thinks that, they probably didn't get a lot of joy out of Errand of Mercy, The Survivors or even All Good Things, and that sucks. Godlike beings were introduced in the pilots of TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager, so they're as much a foundation of the universe as transporters and warp drive, and new viewers are told what they're in for right at the start. Strange New Worlds took a little longer to get there with the godlike nebula, but I don't recall any veteran fans being thrown out of the story by the concept.

But if it's a barrier to someone's enjoyment, then that's just how it is, and there are plenty of episodes without Dowds and Trelanes for them to enjoy. I certainly wouldn't try to talk them into changing their mind, because it'd annoy me if someone tried to do it to me.

 

[fireproof78]

I get the impression The Talosians, Trelane, the Organians, the Q and the Dowd should have no place in Star Trek.

Definitely not the Q!

also the beings who took Charlie X, Thasians (I believe), Megans, as well as Gary Mitchell himself. Plus, the Traveler, Wesley Crusher, Prophets and the aliens from "If Wishes were Horses."

No explanation needed.