What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[BillJ]

People love to point out that Saavik was already a Lieutenant at the Academy during her fourth year so it's not the only example. But Kirk's early bio always seems like a hodgepodge and a stew of early ideas tossed into the character's development that don't always make sense.

But then who knows, already being an Ensign at 17 does seem like an overachieving James T. Kirk thing to do.

With admittedly lazy searching on Google, I can't really find anything that points to students as instructors. Maybe Kirk wasn't the actual person in charge of the class, but an assistant that mostly ran the class for the instructor.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not sure how that works, based on real world US military academies? Anyone care to chime in?

A Lieutenant in the Navy is an O-3 and the equal to a Captain in the US Army.
From the West Point website

Q: What is required in my military file?
A: We require all candidates to be complete with company command (or branch equivalent) by the time they would start graduate school in order to ensure they are competitive for promotion to major. If your timeline is atypical, we will evaluate it on a case-by-case basis. For performance evaluations, we look for officers with outstanding military performance who have received strong evaluation reports. There is no standard number of MQ evaluations that are required, but most competitive files have strong OERs that make them competitive for promotion. Though you will most likely not have an evaluation from your command time when you apply, having a "Most Qualified" from company command is usually a requirement before entering graduate school. Officers must be competitive for promotion based on their past performance in order to be selected. This is something that your branch manager will usually be able to help you evaluate.

Q: What is the difference between an Academy Professor and a Rotating Faculty position?
Rotating faculty positions are for officers who will come to West Point to teach for three years before returning to their basic branch or functional area. These officers will also attend graduate school through the Advanced Civil Schooling process for two to three years before coming to teach. Thus, the entire tour ("round trip") as a rotating instructor is typically five years. These faculty members are selected through the TEACH online application discussed below. These FAQs mostly apply to those who are considering positions as a rotating faculty member.

Rotating Military Faculty


Rotating military faculty consists of of active-duty captains, majors, and lieutenant colonels. An assignment to West Point as a rotating faculty member requires officers to submit an application through the CAC-enabled TEACH system.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes. TWOK only exists due to being part of the same universe/continuity as TOS. It is not its own thing, which was Harve Bennett's point ion screening TOS to look for compelling story ideas for the second TOS movie.

How so? I don't need the events to happen exactly as they occurred in Space Seed to appreciate TWOK.

I'm glad for Bennett but the two works do not line up well in tone or style for me to say "Same continuity."

Mileage will vary. Not wrong; just different opinions

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But then who knows, already being an Ensign at 17 does seem like an overachieving James T. Kirk thing to do.

Pretty much. As everyone should know, people and their individual level development / achievement is not cookie-cutter for everyone. Kirk was always the exception.

 

[kkt]

Well, that was before the TrekBBS came along and ruined Star Trek for all of us.

I dunno. People have been complaining about continuity errors right back to the 1970s, at least, probably farther. Maybe seeing Star Trek in reruns every day meant less time elapsed between seeing all the episodes, so it was easier to remember how things were.

 

[kkt]

I got emotional when the Enterprise D appeared again for the first time in 29 years. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

The Enterprise D didn't do that for me. But when the Enterprise -1701 appeared in "Trials and Tribbleations" I got a little misty eyed.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Not so much ruined, but one thing that was getting old was all the Kirk era characters showing up on the Enterprise years before Kirk took command on SNW. And yet the only "The Cage" era characters we see are Number One and Spock. This is not really a complaint about the actors playing the parts themselves. For the most part they have been fine.

I'd be fine with one or two other Kirk era characters showing up. But practically the entire command crew? I mean, hell, why not just add in Dr. McCoy already and complete the set? In the novels that took place in this era for instance other than Spock, Scotty was assigned to the Enterprise some years before Kirk took command as a junior engineer. There were some "The Cage" era characters still with the ship as well, and new characters.

They released a novel, Enterprise: The First Adventure waaaaaay back where Kirk's first mission on the Enterprise had his whole crew. The next book, Strangers From the Sky, had to send everyone on temporary leave to explain Where No Man...
So the idea's been in my head for decades.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They released a novel, Enterprise: The First Adventure waaaaaay back where Kirk's first mission on the Enterprise had his whole crew. The next book, Strangers From the Sky, had to send everyone on temporary leave to explain Where No Man...
So the idea's been in my head for decades.

I seem to recall some jiggery pokery with McCoy and Piper so Bones could be on the ship prior to WNMHGB.

 

[Qonundrum]

I got emotional when the Enterprise D appeared again for the first time in 29 years. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

Kinda like the last time I saw my ex. Except those weren't tears of joy... but anyway, as for the 1701-D, the care put into the details of its recovery and reconstruction definitely did all the right things. (Geordi had a select team, if not a bunch of robot drones, easy peasy.)

 

[Phoenix219]

I just picture Robert April as looking exactly the same in both SNW and TAS. Sure, he's white in animation and black in live action but it's literally the same man. I just imagine everyone in both series see him the same way. The "James Bond effect."

I can't buy that. I just can't. I'm not a bond fan either, and would view each set of movies as a reboot. (the connery ones got a nice send off, if you believe the conspiracy theory concerning The Rock (movie). Not a fan of the Batman movies that keep changing actors, either. I didn't even like the cartoon seasons that had altered voices when I was a kid. Didn't like it them, don't like it now.

It was just something else that was forced for no good reason, except "memberberries". They easily could've created a new character or had the character be someone like Commodore Stone.

Stone would have been fantastic, and the exact type of expanding on old underdeveloped legacy characters that this show was primed to do, but didn't.

The New Jersey is just proof two different appearances of Connies happen during the 2250s and 2260s. No retcon necessary. Starfleet liked playing around with new tech so some Connies look like the SNW Enterprise and others like the TOS Enterprise.

That would work, if both examples weren't pointing to the same physical vessel, and there is no way it goes from TOS to SNW back to TOS with the tech.

Ok. A simple question:

In the Prime Timeline/Continuity, is Khan a product of 20th century genetic engineering that escaped Earth in 1996?

Yes or no?

If you can't answer that question, that's exactly the problem created by "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow,"

I think the problem lies in that yes, its the Prime Timeline, but the timeline has still been rewritten a bunch of times, and only makes sense if viewed in production order post FC/Enterprise, because the continuity of the prime timeline is 4 dimensional and hinges on previous continuity to get to the next continuity. I don't believe that DSC's 23rd century comes before OG TOS - it is what exists NOW and in no way is compatible.

People love to point out that Saavik was already a Lieutenant at the Academy during her fourth year so it's not the only example. But Kirk's early bio always seems like a hodgepodge and a stew of early ideas tossed into the character's development that don't always make sense.

But then who knows, already being an Ensign at 17 does seem like an overachieving James T. Kirk thing to do.

If Wesley can do it, Kirk can do it, thats for sure.

The writer of that episode of DS9, Ron Moore, has said it was a screw up.

MOORE: "This is my personal screw-up. When I was writing that speech, I was thinking about Khan and somehow his dialog from 'Wrath' started floating through my brain: On Earth... 200 years ago... I was a Prince... The number 200 just stuck in my head and I put it in the script without making the necessary adjustment for the fact that Wrath took place almost a hundred years prior to Dr. Bashir. I wrote it, I get the blame."​

​

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Fine. Then the appearance of the USS New Jersey in Picard season 3 means all of this mess doesn't exist, and by that point in the 25th century it was corrected to the TOS timeline, if we go with the idea that everything is mutable and the continuity can be whatever we want to believe it to be.

I am pretty sure the Kelvin timeline has been corrected by now as well, and we just haven't seen the story that closes the narrative. If not, it was never altered by time travel, and was a true alternate universe from beginning to end.

 

[fireproof78]

Stone would have been fantastic, and the exact type of expanding on old underdeveloped legacy characters that this show was primed to do, but didn't.

As opposed to April who doesn't deserve it?


Sarcasm in case this is taken too literally.

That would work, if both examples weren't pointing to the same physical vessel, and there is no way it goes from TOS to SNW back to TOS with the tech.

Sure there is.

 

[HotRod]

and would view each set of movies as a reboot.

So does that make Search For Spock a reboot? Saavik looks and sounds entirely different, so it must be a reboot.

 

[Phoenix219]

I

As opposed to April who doesn't deserve it?


Sarcasm in case this is taken too literally.


Sure there is.

I don't see any reasonable explanation that is not a bigger leap then accepting timeline rewrites, for the TOS ship to get the crazy looking SNW skin and upgrades, and then go back to looking like TOS. That is beyond any logical leap.

Of course April deserved it, but so did Stone, and one is a complete character alteration and re-imagining, while the other would be a true-to-source expansion of the character. I would absolutely love the character's presence if the exact same actor and lines were called Captain Stone, sans which ship he commanded.

So does that make Search For Spock a reboot? Saavik looks and sounds entirely different, so it must be a reboot.

Is she a different race or gender or on a ship that looks completely different wearing a uniform that looks completely different? there are minor choices of wording, or casting issues, that are more easily dismissed, then immersion breaking huge re imaginings. For instance, some of the space central star fleet whateverisms could just be slang or nicknames.

 

[fireproof78]

don't see any reasonable explanation that is not a bigger leap then accepting timeline rewrites, for the TOS ship to get the crazy looking SNW skin and upgrades, and then go back to looking like TOS. That is beyond any logical leap.

So April has to appear animated?

Because that's how absurd this idea is to me. Prodigy can't really happen either.

Same with Lower Decks.

All overwritten or some nonsense. The line is arbitrary at this point.

 

[Phoenix219]

So April has to appear animated?

Because that's how absurd this idea is to me. Prodigy can't really happen either.

Same with Lower Decks.

All overwritten or some nonsense. The line is arbitrary at this point.

No. Lower Decks has shown that they look very similar in live action to their animated counterparts - a point that PROVES my point with April. Its not arbitrary at all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They look like what ever appears on screen.

 

[fireproof78]

No. Lower Decks has shown that they look very similar in live action to their animated counterparts - a point that PROVES my point with April. Its not arbitrary at all.

Yes, it is.

Saavik doesn't count because reasons.

April counts because reasons.

Certain dialog doesn't count while others do. Some is just characters misspeaking.

TAS is discounted because it's "cheap animation that wasn't canon" until it is important and we have to make sure Spock's childhood lines up.

Spock is Vulcanian and Vulcan has no moon.


Age of the Enterprise.

On and on it comes and goes. It's arbitrary what is given weight and declared a different timeline.

 

[cooleddie74]

SNW is just what the creators of that specific series want their sets and ships to look like. It's still the same ship from TOS (okay, the Ready Room is just a plain ass new addition but that can be explained as the whole bridge being a module that gets replaced by the time Kirk takes command of the ship).

Is it consistent? No. Does it affect the timeline or overall story? No.

 

[fireproof78]

Is it consistent? No. Does it affect the timeline or overall story? No.

Is it Star Trek? Yes.

Is it canon? Yes.

Is it ruined? No.

 

[cooleddie74]

Starfleet changes uniforms and ship details every year anyways. Look how much different the 1701-D bridge was from the TNG finale to GEN. Even the TOS bridge changed noticeably from the two pilot episodes to the regular series.

Does nobody care that the TAS Enterprise had two bridge turbolifts? More proof that whole bridge modules get switched out on a Starfleet whim.