What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[cooleddie74]

It was just something else that was forced for no good reason, except "memberberries". They easily could've created a new character or had the character be someone like Commodore Stone.

I can't disagree with the heart of that argument. I would've just created a new flag officer. But it is what it is, and the fact the only other onscreen appearance of April was in the very last episode of an animated series from almost 50 years ago probably gave them more of an excuse.

The deed was done, and I can make it work because of the animation factor in play.

 

[BillJ]

...then Trek must have actually crossed some kind of line for them this time.

This makes it sound way more serious than it actually is. This is supposed to be fun shooting the shit, type of conversation.

 

[Citiprime]

Dude.

That's been TOS for years now. Especially in to TMP. Excuses were made. People papered over the continuity, because there wasn't really that much of one as it was presented as very episodic. This is presenting an extremely black and white as "either all continuity or no continuity."

And that's just not how drama works, how even history works.

Ok. A simple question:

In the Prime Timeline/Continuity, is Khan a product of 20th century genetic engineering that escaped Earth in 1996?

Yes or no?

If you can't answer that question, that's exactly the problem created by "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow,"

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean, the Orions aren't even the right color in TAS. There's room to play around.

 

[BillJ]

The deed was done, and I can make it work because of the animation factor in play.

I think the thrust of my comment was, you make it work you're way. But, you're still having to "make it work". You're doing the same thing I am, just coming to a different conclusion.

 

[fireproof78]

Ok. A simple question:

In the Prime Timeline/Continuity, is Khan a product of 20th century genetic engineering that escaped Earth in 1996?

Yes or no?

If you can't answer that question, that's exactly the problem created by "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow,"

Yes.

 

[BillJ]

In the Prime Timeline/Continuity, is Khan a product of 20th century genetic engineering that escaped Earth in 1996?

To be completely fair, genetic engineering is actually a change to the Khan character. His origins were Eugenics in "Space Seed".

 

[cooleddie74]

He's still a product of late 20th century genetic engineering. Project Khan is a file folder from 1996 containing the data to proceed with eugenics experiments.

It's just the dates of the wars that changed.

 

[fireproof78]

So if this person is bothered by something, then Trek must have actually crossed some kind of line for them this time.

Which comes to my concern that this has crossed the line of not being fun or enjoyable but treated as serious business.

You can do that.

I will not. I lived that life. I burned myself out on it. I'm good with Trek being fun and working together however I chose. TOS is it's own thing. It isn't connected to TMP, TWOK or anything else. Never has worked for me.

Now, am I wrong?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

This makes it sound way more serious than it actually is. This is supposed to be fun shooting the shit, type of conversation.

Hey, I never said I was good with words!

 

[BillJ]

Hey, I never said I was good with words!

Fair enough.

 

[HotRod]

This is how I view it.

 

[cooleddie74]

Or maybe the wars always WERE in the early 21st century and the dates we hear in TOS and TWOK are an echo of temporal ripples down through the decades? The Romulan agent in SNW says that it was all supposed to happen in 1992. I can rationalize that date still echoes down through time in random ways though the events themselves now become firmly ensconced events of the 2030s or so.

Or not. It is what it is.

"I hate temporal mechanics."

 

[BillJ]

This is how I view it.

I just can't. I spent fifty years with the one on the left. All the rest are variations of a theme, but they will never be the ship on the left, to me.

 

[BillJ]

Or maybe the wars always WERE in the early 21st century and the dates we hear in TOS and TWOK are an echo of temporal ripples down through the decades? The Romulan agent in SNW says that it was all supposed to happen in 1992. I can rationalize that date still echoes down through time in random ways though the events themselves now become firmly ensconced events of the 2030s or so.

It is still an explanation for the differences between then and now. We all do it, we just do it in different ways.

Honestly, it shows I still care about CBS Trek to some degree. Or else I wouldn't even bother trying to come up with an explanation.

 

[cooleddie74]

To be frank, Kirk already being a full Ensign and then Lieutenant on the teaching staff at the Academy still bugs me decades later. The kid's barely 20 and he's already on staff as a full Lieutenant instructing the class where he meets Gary Mitchell? I know Kirk was bright and cunning and reprogrammed the Kobayashi Maru simulation to beat it, but that's some SERIOUS upward mobility for even a stack of books with legs.

The writers and timeline doesn't always add up or make logical sense, but it is what it is until something comes along to change it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because both were generally uninteresting. They had the good sense to let them rest.

I like it when "generally uninteresting" characters are given a chance to become interesting. See Chapel, Christine,

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Ok. A simple question:

In the Prime Timeline/Continuity, is Khan a product of 20th century genetic engineering that escaped Earth in 1996?

Yes or no?

If you can't answer that question, that's exactly the problem created by "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow,"

It is quite easy to ignore "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" as irrelevant to the continuity TOS created.

I mean, the Orions aren't even the right color in TAS. There's room to play around.

Orion females (one seen in "The Time Trap") are green as established in TOS, while the males are are a different hue, so continuity was preserved, along with creating a new look for one gender of the Orions.

Now, am I wrong?

Yes. TWOK only exists due to being part of the same universe/continuity as TOS. It is not its own thing, which was Harve Bennett's point in screening TOS to look for compelling story ideas for the second TOS movie.

 

[BillJ]

To be frank, Kirk already being a full Ensign and then Lieutenant on the teaching staff at the Academy still bugs me decades later. The kid's barely 20 and he's already on staff as a full Lieutenant instructing the class where he meets Gary Mitchell? I know Kirk was bright and cunning and reprogrammed the Kobayashi Maru simulation to beat it, but that's some SERIOUS upward mobility for even a stack of books with legs.

The writers and timeline doesn't always add up or make logical sense, but it is what it is until something comes along to change it.

Not sure how that works, based on real world US military academies? Anyone care to chime in?

 

[cooleddie74]

People love to point out that Saavik was already a Lieutenant at the Academy during her fourth year so it's not the only example. But Kirk's early bio always seems like a hodgepodge and a stew of early ideas tossed into the character's development that don't always make sense.

But then who knows, already being an Ensign at 17 does seem like an overachieving James T. Kirk thing to do.