What happened to Deep Spaces 1-8?

[NaughtyTrekkie]

I would have like to see a crossover between B5 and DS9, episode title would be "Lwaxana Troi learns an hard lesson"

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

I've always found it quite silly to assume one copied the other just because they were both set on space stations. I mean, that's like assuming that Grey's Anatomy is a ripoff of Doogie Howser, MD because they're both set in hospitals, or that Night Court is a ripoff of Perry Mason because they're both set in courtrooms.

Or like saying Volcano (1997) is a ripoff of Dante's Peak (1997) because they're both 1997 movies featuring volcano eruptions. Or like saying Armageddon (1998) is a ripoff of Deep Impact (1998) because they're both 1998 movies featuring asteroid impacts. Or like saying White House Down (2013) is a ripoff of Olympus Has Fallen (2013) because they're both 2013 movies featuring terrorism in the White House. Or like saying… OK, you get the picture!

I mean, these things happen…

…a lot… in Hollywood…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_films

 

[Christopher]

Yes. Laypeople always assume that similarity "proves" copying, but the truth is that it's hard to avoid accidental similarity. Different creators are still working within the same cultural landscape, subject to the same influences and contemporary concerns, and if they're working in the same genre, that narrows their pool of potential references even more. And storytelling has a syntax; there are only so many plot structures or character arcs that make for viable, cohesive stories. So it's inevitable that people working in the same field around the same time will occasionally converge on the same ideas without intending to. Writers generally have to try their best to avoid similarity to other works, because too much similarity will probably get your work rejected. But it still keeps happening all the time.

 

[DrCorby]

...Of course, the UT and "proper" names create an interesting conundrum: most if not all proper names ultimately derive from something thoroughly "improper", and the translator really ought to figure that out.

Say, "Winston Churchill" ought to be translated into Cardassian (as "<Friend><Stone> <Church><Hill>" if the online etymology for the given name is correct). Or then not - but why not? If the brave Cardassian navy runs into USS Winston Churchill, aren't they entitled to learning the "meaning" of the name just like our heroes can learn a Romulan ship is called the Scimitar in English?

Do the words Terok and Nor mean nothing at all in the Cardassian language? Even if Terok is just the modern way of spelling Tarrokc, a common ancient name and an abbreviation of Huhgtarrokc which means "competent volewrangler", why is the UT staying mum on the subject?

So, similar to the wizard from another world, whose name was translated literally as "as a color, shade of purple-grey", in the Niven/Gerrold novel The Flying Sorcerers?

 

[diankra]

Yes. Laypeople always assume that similarity "proves" copying, but the truth is that it's hard to avoid accidental similarity.

Also, in a lot of these apparent cases of plagiarism, the only guilty party would be the studios bosses; the pitch has been around for years, but it takes the success of a similar project for the bosses to decide that they were wrong to reject it, and put it into production.
Which often leads to the results being short-lived, as viewers either reject them as a rip-off, or tune in with false expectations of a closer copy. Ken Johnson's Shadow Chasers in the mid-80s, written years earlier, but only picked up after Ghostbusters wowed the box office, was a notable example.

 

[Christopher]

Also, in a lot of these apparent cases of plagiarism, the only guilty party would be the studios bosses; the pitch has been around for years, but it takes the success of a similar project for the bosses to decide that they were wrong to reject it, and put it into production.
Which often leads to the results being short-lived, as viewers either reject them as a rip-off, or tune in with false expectations of a closer copy. Ken Johnson's Shadow Chasers in the mid-80s, written years earlier, but only picked up after Ghostbusters wowed the box office, was a notable example.

Also Battlestar Galactica, which Glen Larson had been pitching since the '60s but didn't get traction on until after Star Wars; and Donald Bellisario's Tales of the Gold Monkey, which had been gathering dust on ABC's development shelf for years until Raiders of the Lost Ark happened and they were suddenly eager to produce something similar.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Yes. Laypeople always assume that similarity "proves" copying, but the truth is that it's hard to avoid accidental similarity. Different creators are still working within the same cultural landscape, subject to the same influences and contemporary concerns, and if they're working in the same genre, that narrows their pool of potential references even more. And storytelling has a syntax; there are only so many plot structures or character arcs that make for viable, cohesive stories. So it's inevitable that people working in the same field around the same time will occasionally converge on the same ideas without intending to. Writers generally have to try their best to avoid similarity to other works, because too much similarity will probably get your work rejected. But it still keeps happening all the time.

Also, in a lot of these apparent cases of plagiarism, the only guilty party would be the studios bosses; the pitch has been around for years, but it takes the success of a similar project for the bosses to decide that they were wrong to reject it, and put it into production.
Which often leads to the results being short-lived, as viewers either reject them as a rip-off, or tune in with false expectations of a closer copy. Ken Johnson's Shadow Chasers in the mid-80s, written years earlier, but only picked up after Ghostbusters wowed the box office, was a notable example.

Also Battlestar Galactica, which Glen Larson had been pitching since the '60s but didn't get traction on until after Star Wars; and Donald Bellisario's Tales of the Gold Monkey, which had been gathering dust on ABC's development shelf for years until Raiders of the Lost Ark happened and they were suddenly eager to produce something similar.

Who said anything about copying and plagiarism? If you read the Wikipedia article I linked it says exactly what you answered! Here is the paragraph for those who didn't read it:
"Twin films are films with the same, or very similar, plot produced or released at the same time in two different studios. The phenomenon can result from two or more production companies investing in similar scripts around the same time, resulting in a race to distribute the films to audiences. Some attribute twin films to industrial espionage, the fact of film makers moving between studios, or that the same screenplays are sent to several film studios. Another explanation is that films often deal with topical issues, such as comets, volcano eruptions, reality TV, terrorist attacks or significant anniversaries, resulting in some sort of multiple discovery but in film".

 

[Christopher]

^I was agreeing with your point, not disputing it. That's why my post began with "Yes."

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

^I was agreeing with your point, not disputing it. That's why my post began with "Yes."

Oops, sorry. My fault. I misunderstood that!

Although, looking at that "twin films" list again, I can't help but wonder what contemporary influences and cultural concerns gave us Like Father Like Son in 1987 and Vice Versa, 18 Again! and Big in 1988!!!

Returning to B5 and DS9, I don't know what took place behind the scenes in the creation of the two shows, but I am glad they both got made, and I enjoyed them both.

 

[locutus101]

Who said anything about copying and plagiarism? If you read the Wikipedia article I linked it says exactly what you answered! Here is the paragraph for those who didn't read it:
"Twin films are films with the same, or very similar, plot produced or released at the same time in two different studios. The phenomenon can result from two or more production companies investing in similar scripts around the same time, resulting in a race to distribute the films to audiences. Some attribute twin films to industrial espionage, the fact of film makers moving between studios, or that the same screenplays are sent to several film studios. Another explanation is that films often deal with topical issues, such as comets, volcano eruptions, reality TV, terrorist attacks or significant anniversaries, resulting in some sort of multiple discovery but in film".

That's why they may have to justify themselves before a tribunal and give the circumstances under which they got these ideas.

 

[diankra]

Also Battlestar Galactica, which Glen Larson had been pitching since the '60s but didn't get traction on until after Star Wars; and Donald Bellisario's Tales of the Gold Monkey, which had been gathering dust on ABC's development shelf for years until Raiders of the Lost Ark happened and they were suddenly eager to produce something similar.

And to be fair to the studio chiefs, they'd often liked the idea from the start, and supported it with development options for years, but couldn't actually OK it till there was proof that the public might too. Bosses have to justify themselves to higher bosses.

 

[locutus101]

And to be fair to the studio chiefs, they'd often liked the idea from the start, and supported it with development options for years, but couldn't actually OK it till there was proof that the public might too. Bosses have to justify themselves to higher bosses.

Unless they are the top bosses.

 

[diankra]

No one ever gets to be top boss.

 

[locutus101]

No one ever gets to be top boss.

What's on top of all the bosses then?

 

[Christopher]

What's on top of all the bosses then?

It's bosses all the way up.

 

[locutus101]

It's bosses all the way up.

Sounds like something from this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel,_Escher,_Bach

 

[diankra]

At the top, there is God, or an empty echoing void that mocks your desire for purpose. Or, if 80s Radio 4 comedy In One Ear is right, Margaret Thatcher.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Actually, the hierarchy of bosses is circularly defined. At the top is Hong Kong Phooey.

 

[TommyR01D]

Maybe "Deep Space" is an antique euphemism for places that are outside of Federation territory or belonging to someone else, so that title is given to any address which Starfleet shares with another power.

 

[locutus101]

I think "Deep Space" is vis a vis Earh. DS9 is said to be far from Earth (regardless of the fact that a small Ferengi ship covers the distance in no time, though).