What happened to Deep Spaces 1-8?

[Six of Twelve]

Voyager mentions Deep Space 4 as being in the Omega Sector, which was the jumping off point for Seven of Nine and her parents on their trip to the Delta Quadrant and eventual assimilation, when she was a little girl. Omega Sector suggests that it's at the ass end of the Alpha or Beta Quadrant.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A clerical error. It was supposed to be Deep Space Nein. The question is, where are Deep Space Jawohl Herr Kommandant, Deep Space Hoooogaaan! and Deep Space I Know Nothing! NOTHIIIING!

No Deep Space What is this man doing here!!!!????

 

[Six of Twelve]

No Deep Space What is this man doing here!!!!????

That would be Deep Space Hochstetter.

 

[retroenzo]

At least we foud out what happened in Star Wars Episodes I-III, although some may think we shouldn't have...

Does anyone really want to know what happened in the movies Leonard Parts 1-5?

I want to know what happened in Oceans I-X....

 

[retroenzo]

Yeah. It's basically following the precedent of Deep Space Station K-7 in "The Trouble With Tribbles." Presumably that was one of multiple Deep Space Stations along the Klingon border, hence the "K."

And of course there's the precedent of numbered starbases. You have normal starbases -- Starbase 12, Starbase 47, Starbase 136, etc. -- and you have deep space starbases -- Starbase Deep Space 4, Starbase Deep Space 9, etc. I always figured the "Deep Space" in 24th-century usage referred to starbases that were outside of Federation space, like frontier outposts. DS9 would then have been the ninth such starbase to be established beyond UFP borders, at least since that labeling standard was established. I'd assume that a lot of 23rd-century starbases were in the frontier, since that's where the Enterprise operated most of the time (and Starbase 47 in the Vanguard novels is definitely deep into the frontier). But the 24th-century UFP is larger and more settled, so a lot of formerly frontier starbases would now be inside the UFP's borders, thus the need for a separate designation for bases beyond the borders.

I always thought that Starbases were named for a sector of space so it's possible that not all sectors have starbases, and why you can get some ridiculously high starbase numbers too.

 

[Seven of Five]

"It was the dawn of the third age of mankind, four years before the Dominion War. The Deep Space Project was a dream given form. Its goal: to prevent another war by creating a place where humans and aliens could work out their differences peacefully. It's a port of call, home away from home for diplomats, hustlers, entrepreneurs, and wanderers. Humans and aliens wrapped in million tons of spinning metal, all alone in the night. It can be a dangerous place, but it's our last best hope for peace. This is the story of the last of the Deep Space stations. The year is 2369. The name of the place is Deep Space 9".

Obviously so. And then at the start of season six would have have to be:

"The Deep Space project was our last, best hope for peace. It failed."
Dramatic music

Perhaps my favourite of all the openings.

 

[retroenzo]

Obviously so. And then at the start of season six would have have to be:

"The Deep Space project was our last, best hope for peace. It failed."
Dramatic music

Perhaps my favourite of all the openings.

Love it. The 'Dramatic music' bit made me start thinking of some kind of Battlestar Trek Galactica type intro. Shame there's no voice-over in the start of that show.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

What's more worrying is what happened to the Enterprise 0001 to 1700!

 

[somebuddyX]

DS9 isn't particularly "deep" in terms of distance from Earth, the supposed center of the Federation, either. Nor is there anything special about it floating in "space" rather than, say, being built on a planet. So why the name?

I've always chucked at the early DS9 VHS tape covers which had written: "These are the adventures of DEEP SPACE NINE... remote and abandoned Cardassian outpost, stationed at the very edge of the known universe."

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Apparently, "Terok Nor" means "Ninth Station" in Cardassian.

http://lcars.ucip.org/index.php?title=Cardassian_Language#Numbers

Not sure where the "Deep Space" comes from -- mistranslated perhaps?

 

[locutus101]

...they probably exist in other points of Federation space.

That's pretty much what I've figured.

 

[Timo]

I always thought that Starbases were named for a sector of space so it's possible that not all sectors have starbases, and why you can get some ridiculously high starbase numbers too.

That sounds attractive as such, but then we have to reconcile between there being starbases mostly in the range of 2-500 while sector numbers can start low yet tend to the five digits in the TNG era (especially around Bajor, Cardassia, DS9 and SB 375). Do sector numbers spiral out from Earth, with all the starbases located close to home? Great for starbases, doesn't help with sectors. Do sector numbers increase monotonically column per column and layer per layer in a Cartesian 3D grid, with columns and layers extending all the way to the edges of the galaxy and perhaps leaving Sector 23 and Sector 45883 as next-door neighbors? Great for sectors, doesn't help with starbases. So if there's a connection, it's not numerically straightforward.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

Apparently, "Terok Nor" means "Ninth Station" in Cardassian.

http://lcars.ucip.org/index.php?title=Cardassian_Language#Numbers

Not sure where the "Deep Space" comes from -- mistranslated perhaps?

That's just a fan invention, and it can't be correct, because we know (as discussed above) that there are multiple other Federation stations with the "Deep Space #" designation (not to mention Deep Space Station K-7 from TOS). So Deep Space 9 is not translated from Cardassian. It's unquestionably the Starfleet designation of the station. It would be an implausible coincidence if it happened to be the ninth station of its type in both nations' classification schemes.

Not to mention that, in "Cardassians," Bashir didn't know what post the name "Terok Nor" referred to until Dukat told him it was DS9. Everyone in Trek has universal translators. If "Deep Space Nine" were just the translation of "Terok Nor," then Bashir would've heard it in English and wouldn't have been confused. And in "Call to Arms," when Dukat reoccupied the station, he made a point of correcting Kira's "Deep Space Nine" to "Terok Nor," further indicating that it's not just a translation of the same name. (True, sometimes people make a big issue out of which language or dialect is being used -- for instance, there's a political element to whether you say "Myanmar" or "Burma," even though those are the same name in two different dialects and transliteration schemes -- but again, if we're assuming everyone's using UTs, then they'd all hear the name in their own languages anyway.)

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

In the real world, of course, I guess it was just a marketing invention to compete with Babylon Five.

 

[Timo]

And quite a gamble, as using numbers in titles risks being incredibly boring.

...Of course, the UT and "proper" names create an interesting conundrum: most if not all proper names ultimately derive from something thoroughly "improper", and the translator really ought to figure that out.

Say, "Winston Churchill" ought to be translated into Cardassian (as "<Friend><Stone> <Church><Hill>" if the online etymology for the given name is correct). Or then not - but why not? If the brave Cardassian navy runs into USS Winston Churchill, aren't they entitled to learning the "meaning" of the name just like our heroes can learn a Romulan ship is called the Scimitar in English?

Do the words Terok and Nor mean nothing at all in the Cardassian language? Even if Terok is just the modern way of spelling Tarrokc, a common ancient name and an abbreviation of Huhgtarrokc which means "competent volewrangler", why is the UT staying mum on the subject?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

In the real world, of course, I guess it was just a marketing invention to compete with Babylon Five.

No, it was not. The pilot of Babylon 5 didn't air until a month after DS9 premiered, so there was nothing to compete with yet.

According to The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine by Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens, p. 74:

The title part was easy because it was so hard. Hard enough that Berman and Piller couldn't come up with anything they liked. One way or another, according to Brandon Tartikoff, STAR TREK was going to be part of it. The Final Frontier was an evocative term from the opening preamble of the first two series, and it had a certain appeal. But it had also been the title of STAR TREK V, the least successful of the film series.

Logically, the station would have a Cardassian or Bajoran name... But both Berman and Piller wanted to avoid an alien word in the title. Yet their original, bland, Starfleet designation for the station -- Starbase 362 -- didn't seem to work as a title either. Finally, almost from desperation, Berman suggested Deep Space Nine for no particular reason that anyone can remember. No one was thrilled with it, but no one hated it enough to suggest something else. There were more important concerns to consider.

What I recall reading elsewhere (though I can't recall where) was that Deep Space Nine was just intended as a placeholder, a working title until they came up with something better, but once it started getting publicized, they were pretty much stuck with it. Just think -- if ST V had used a different title, DS9 would probably have ended up being called Star Trek: The Final Frontier. Which would've been a pretty good title for it. Certainly a better fit than it was for ST V.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I don't think ST was ever "worried" about competing w B5. Quite the opposite.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I've seen different opinions on the matter of whether DS9 stole ideas from B5 or vice versa. It's irrelevant at this distance in time anyway as well as being boring. Personally, I'm glad we got both.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

No, it was not. The pilot of Babylon 5 didn't air until a month after DS9 premiered, so there was nothing to compete with yet.

I don't think ST was ever "worried" about competing w B5. Quite the opposite.

Now, to play devil's advocate…

The pilot episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) aired just weeks before Babylon 5debuted. Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski indicated that Paramount Television was aware of his concept as early as 1989, when he attempted to sell the show to the studio, and provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and plot synopses for 22 "or so planned episodes taken from the overall course of the planned series".

Paramount declined to produce Babylon 5, but later announced Deep Space Nine was in development, two months after Warner Bros. announced its plans for Babylon 5. Straczynski stated that, even though he was confident that Deep Space Nine producer/creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had not seen this material, he suspected that Paramount executives used his bible and scripts to steer development of Deep Space Nine. He and Warner did not file suit against Paramount, largely because Straczynski didn't see it as a productive option, with negative repercussions for both TV series. In 1993 he responded to a Deep Space Nine fan who saw the lack of legal action as proof that Straczynski's allegation was unfounded, "If there is any (to use your term) winking and nudging going on, it's on the level of 'Okay, YOU (Paramount) know what happened, and *I* know what happened, but let's try to be grownup about it for now,' though I must say that the shapechanging thing nearly tipped me back over the edge again. If there are no more major similarities that crop up in the next few weeks or months, with luck we can continue that way."

Babylon 5's first-run syndicated ratings averaged between 3 and 4% of US households from 1995 to 1997, whereas DS9 ranged from 4 to 5% during the same time span.

Granted, it is one side of the argument and it is from Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Christopher]

I've seen different opinions on the matter of whether DS9 stole ideas from B5 or vice versa. It's irrelevant at this distance in time anyway as well as being boring. Personally, I'm glad we got both.

I've always found it quite silly to assume one copied the other just because they were both set on space stations. I mean, that's like assuming that Grey's Anatomy is a ripoff of Doogie Howser, MD because they're both set in hospitals, or that Night Court is a ripoff of Perry Mason because they're both set in courtrooms. It's just a setting. Really, the only settings a space show can have are a ship, an alien planet or moon, or a space station. It's surprising we don't have more shows set on space stations.

Let's see, what are some other shows with space stations as their primary settings? Space Academy. Jason of Star Command. Mercy Point. Mystery Science Theater 3000. Parts of the first season of The 100. If we stretch the point to include lunar bases, we can add the BBC's obscure Moonbase 3 as well as Space: 1999.

Now, to play devil's advocate…

Granted, it is one side of the argument and it is from Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah, I've heard it all before, but it only goes so far. I'm willing to believe the network execs were influenced by B5 in some way, maybe, but that doesn't mean Berman and Piller were. As the Making of DS9 book explains, Berman and Piller originally planned on setting their series on the surface of Bajor. Since the show would be coexisting with TNG, they didn't want it to be starship-based, so an alien planet was their second choice. But they realized it would be too expensive and time-consuming to keep shuttling the production between the studio and an outdoor location. They needed something that was mostly studio-bound but wasn't set on a ship, so that left a space station. Maybe the execs liked the idea that what Berman & Piller were coming up with independently just happened to resemble what JMS was doing, but that's just the execs.

And some of the "parallels" JMS cited were pretty ridiculous, like that shapeshifter thing. He had an assassin using a technological disguise in the pilot. That's totally different from having a shapeshifter as a regular character. The only similarity is that they were both drawing on the new technology of CGI morphing, but what show wouldn't have done so at the time?