So in the title sequence it was not intentional to show the crew of the Cerritos escaping in fear from the Borg. The authors clearly wanted to show how clever and apt to good tactics they are. Right.
What DON’T you like about the show?
- Thread starter Nenya
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^ Well, the main intention of the writers for the title sequence in general and that moment in particular was for it to be funny first and foremost. That them fleeing the Borg can be read as cowardice — even if in-universe there could be a sensible reason to do so — is exactly what makes it funny in the first place. But I guess I won't be able to convince you to laugh at something you just don't find humorous. That's just not how humor works. 
Do you have that online anywhere? I'd be interested in reading your analysis.
I tried to find it yesterday but couldn’t...I’ll search again.
But I just found my original notes!
Reference:
Beginning: opening of the TAS series from the 70s
0:18: mix between the Star Trek II theme and the Orville
0:38 generic bridge section
0:43 almost straight-up theme from the Orville!
0:56 little quotation from Star Wars (or from the suite of planets by Holst, which is where that came originally)
1:00 back to the so called main theme.
The thing being in the Bb key of the TNG theme and with similar instrumentation gives it familiarity.
Reference:
Beginning: opening of the TAS series from the 70s
0:18: mix between the Star Trek II theme and the Orville
0:38 generic bridge section
0:43 almost straight-up theme from the Orville!
0:56 little quotation from Star Wars (or from the suite of planets by Holst, which is where that came originally)
1:00 back to the so called main theme.
The thing being in the Bb key of the TNG theme and with similar instrumentation gives it familiarity.
Not sure what you mean. And to be clear: I’m really enjoying this show, more than any recent trek show in fact. I really don’t like the intro sequence and don’t find the theme music particularly interesting, but everything else is really of my liking.
Yeah, no, I don't hear the similarity to the Orville theme at all. They are obviously both setting out to do a similar thing — sound vaguely familiar as a classic 80s/90s sci-fi show tune in general and similar to the Next Generation theme in particular — but other than that they don't sound all that similar at all. They don't share any melody as far as I can tell. Certainly nothing that would let me think one “lifted” anything from the other. The beginning does sound very similar to the TAS theme (which in itself was just a play on the classic TOS theme), that's true. Curious that, seeing that they're both animated Star Trek shows. Could almost be — and I'm just spitballing here — done on purpose. 
Oh, I'm sure that the TAS intro is there on purpose and that's a nice idea. For the orville influence, listen in particular to the section starting at 0:43: it's a very similar melody on very similar harmonies!
I do understand the points both of you are making and I agree on the idea that Starfleet officers and members can't be all the same and there can be a lack of discipline and seriousness etc. Still, for me personally it's just over the top and I, other than you, can't see that it makes sense that Starfleet is even sending out a whole ship of characters like those. But in the end it doesn't work for me, but it does work for you and a lot of other people who enjoy the show - I'd say both perspectives (and also those in between) are reasonable. I don't have to enjoy the show, but I'm happy for everyone who can enjoy it
I on the other hand, when it comes to the new and modern ST stuff, have a lot of fun with DSC and PIC which also face a lot of criticism (and some of it is really justified).
Modern Trek in a nutshellIt is like the show set out to piss in your cereal bowl.
Honestly the idea that everyone in Starfleet is the elite of the best of the best of the best never made sense to me. Starfleet is a huge organization. If they set the bar too high they wouldn't be able to meet basic staffing requirements, and that's before you factor in the high mortality rate we've seen even during peacetime.
'Kay. So what is it you think the Cerritos should have done after taking fire from a Borg cube? Sat there and taken the beating? Got all up in their Collective grill and said "you don't mess with Starfleet! and proceeded to inflict a meaningless attack? How should that scene have played out differently than it did?So in the title sequence it was not intentional to show the crew of the Cerritos escaping in fear from the Borg. The authors clearly wanted to show how clever and apt to good tactics they are. Right.
As i stated many, many times up here, the problem is the context (or lack of thereof). There is clear intent here to depict the crew as a bunch of incompetent cowards for the lulz, while even in the series they are not really incompetent or coward.
If the scene was part of an episode I would have zero problem with it, because it would come WITH CONTEXT.
If the scene was part of an episode I would have zero problem with it, because it would come WITH CONTEXT.
I think the flip side is the assumption that it automatically means cowardice. Since, as noted, them not being cowards is part of the tone of the show then we can be gracious in the interpretation of that scene.
It doesn’t.
But can you in good faith state that you believe that the authors of the title sequence didn’t mean to imply the crew was panicking in that shot?
But can you in good faith state that you believe that the authors of the title sequence didn’t mean to imply the crew was panicking in that shot?
Yes.
So the intention was to show how clever and able to take good tactical decisions they are? 
come on!
come on!
Again, I don't see how running from the Borg, even without context, can be considered cowardice or panicking.
As I had stated in my post on that issue, fleeing from a Borg Cube alone doesn't portray cowardice, that's very true. But then again, we have to regard this scene within the context we have, thus the whole opening sequence. And that's basically a collection of scenes that portray the Cerritos in a funny way, showing it in awkward situations: Hitting the iceberg, being held by a space monster etc. This shows in my opinion that the opening sequence in itself is definitely meant to be funny and to kinda make fun of the Cerritos, so then the question is why should the Borg scene be meant to break out of this scheme?
Precisely.
I don't think a reference counts as a joke. It's not funny, it's just something for us to go "Oh, I get that!" so we can get a little dopamine hit. There's a lot more potential in a show like this than just references and to me, it feels like Mike McMahan is just flexing his Trek knowledge.
With a show that's so referential to its predecessors, what worth does it have if you take all that nostalgia away? Does it stand on its own? Also, I feel that a lot of fans are too busy being psyched that their favourite era of Star Trek is back on TV, that they don't recognise where the show is lacking.
With a show that's so referential to its predecessors, what worth does it have if you take all that nostalgia away? Does it stand on its own? Also, I feel that a lot of fans are too busy being psyched that their favourite era of Star Trek is back on TV, that they don't recognise where the show is lacking.
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