God must be bi-polar.
What does God tell you?
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Amaris
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Dick? Troll? God's a psycho!
In the words of the ever brilliant and much missed George Carlin, "Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!"
Hearing God is just another step in a long line of confirmation biases that convince you that he loves you, despite all the horrid events that take place, in the Bible, by his hand.
No, actually: I think it's your use of the term "laws of nature" that's sloppy here.
The laws of nature aren't "used" to "explain" things. They're generalizations based on empirical observation, and which serve as the basis for predictions about the future.
Laws are inviolable, by definition. If God violated the laws of nature by working miracles, they wouldn't be the laws of nature. They'd just be the guidelines of nature.
In any case: this isn't a thread about Spinoza, or miracles, so I'm just going to quote the relevant section from the Theological-Political Treatise, and drop the subject.
Spinoza begins by asserting that "nothing happens contrary to nature, but nature maintains an eternal fixed, and immutable order." This point, he says, "is easily demonstrated from what we proved in Chapter 4 about the divine law, namely that all that God wills or determines involves eternal necessity and truth."
(Spinoza, Theological-Political Treatise, trans. Michael Silverthorne and Jonathan Israel (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2007), 82-4)
Spinoza is top trumps.
He loves you, and you must love him, or else he'll make sure you get your arse kicked for eternity. Nice.
^ this
(btw, I've never ever done the "this" thing before - and it just felt so good, so right)
Could I ask you both a couple of questions?
In my experience, this is how sane people (like yourselves) describe God "speaking" to them. It's a rare thing, and sometimes a life-changing thing. Defined in terms like these, my mother would say that God has "spoken" to her, as well.
My question is: what is it like, exactly? Do you hear an actual voice? Or is it just some kind of strong feeling, or intuition, or epiphany? Or do you receive some kind of sign or omen, like opening a Bible and finding a particularly compelling verse?
And finally: how do you know it's God? And not just your own intuition, or even a coincidence?
I won't debate or even question your answers. I really am just interested in hearing about your experiences.
God's a jealous, bi-polar dick.
Despite not being religious at all, I've had 2 incidents which could be described as hearing god and experiencing unexplained things. *Could* is the operative word. I have my doubts but they are weird.
1) Long ago I was interested in this girl. I started persuing her. But, I heard a voice that said, "now is not the time." I heard it but apparently the people around me didn't. It wasn't spoken as a command but gently. I seemed to get the full implication that while now is not right, later would be. So, I stopped pursuing her completely and I really even stopped thinking about her. Kind of weird in retrospect that I would go from being so interested to not interested at all at that time. The power of the voice, possibly. Anyway, years later, it apparently became the right time. We met again, dating came naturally, and we have been married a long time now.
2) I made a direct appeal to god once and it was apparently granted. I had a bad knee injury. A site effect of it is that if I walked much it would get extremely painful. So, I went to Paris and we walked a ton. My knee absolutely killing me with each step. We go into Notre Dame and, out of desperation, I try to make a pact with god, "If you stop the pain in my knee, I'll believe in you." I felt dumb at the time and it was totally out of desperation. I was truly athiest. Anyway, my knee stopped hurting in the cathedral. That wasn't too weird because it would normally stop hurting after some rest. But, the pain never came back even after walking lots more. It's about 30 years ago now and the pain is still gone. It literally stopped right there in the cathedral after my pact. The funny thing, I'm so dang skeptical that it didn't convince me.
There are alternate explanations for both, for sure. The net effect is that I am now agnostic rather than atheist.
Mr Awe
1) Long ago I was interested in this girl. I started persuing her. But, I heard a voice that said, "now is not the time." I heard it but apparently the people around me didn't. It wasn't spoken as a command but gently. I seemed to get the full implication that while now is not right, later would be. So, I stopped pursuing her completely and I really even stopped thinking about her. Kind of weird in retrospect that I would go from being so interested to not interested at all at that time. The power of the voice, possibly. Anyway, years later, it apparently became the right time. We met again, dating came naturally, and we have been married a long time now.
2) I made a direct appeal to god once and it was apparently granted. I had a bad knee injury. A site effect of it is that if I walked much it would get extremely painful. So, I went to Paris and we walked a ton. My knee absolutely killing me with each step. We go into Notre Dame and, out of desperation, I try to make a pact with god, "If you stop the pain in my knee, I'll believe in you." I felt dumb at the time and it was totally out of desperation. I was truly athiest. Anyway, my knee stopped hurting in the cathedral. That wasn't too weird because it would normally stop hurting after some rest. But, the pain never came back even after walking lots more. It's about 30 years ago now and the pain is still gone. It literally stopped right there in the cathedral after my pact. The funny thing, I'm so dang skeptical that it didn't convince me.
There are alternate explanations for both, for sure. The net effect is that I am now agnostic rather than atheist.
Mr Awe
my God tells me to buy a ticket for His movie. out next wednesday, in Britain.
He also commands me to tell you all to buy tickets for His movie when it opens in your territory.
He also said, 'I want My movie to take more than that guy in the lame CG costume.'
He also commands me to tell you all to buy tickets for His movie when it opens in your territory.
He also said, 'I want My movie to take more than that guy in the lame CG costume.'
Desert Speculation gone wild.
God has never "spoken" to me like we talk to each other, but He has shown me His love and power.
1. When I was in college I was telling a friend about a book I read called "The Devils of D-Day". The guy who wrote it used actual demon names and satanic spells. The book was a fiction novel about the US and Britain making apact with the devil to possess 13 Sherman tanks in order to screw over the Nazis for 13 days. One tank broke down, it was sealed up and when it was opened years after WWII, the demon inside forced a reporter to help him look for his "brothers".
Well anyway I was telling my friend this and I mentioned the name of the head demon. All of a sudden I saw this swirling brownish/white mass in front of my friend's face. I walked up to it and it looked back at me. It looked like a dirty cloud with an eyeball stuck in the middle of it. I jumped back and it felt as if a soul crushing darkness was settling over me. I then pointed at it and said, "In the name of Jesus leave!" and that thing flew out the door, well, like a bat out of hell. It fled as if something or someone was after it. When it was gone I felt as if I was surrounded by angels and Jesus Himself was there, although I didn't see any of them.
2. When I had my 2nd hip replacement surgery I was nervous for some reason. they gave me the medicine to go to sleep and as soon as I closed my eyes I was walking down a stone path and I ended up in a small garden. There was a stone wall with pretty flowers growing next to it. There was a wooden gate and beyond the gate was all smokey and gray. Suddenly God appeared. He had no face and just had on a white robe, but I instantly knew it was God. He came over to me and we both sat on the stone wall and He told me He was here to be with me because He knew I was nervous. He then held my hand. The whole time I wanted to ask him questions such as if aliens exist and if I could see video of Him creating stuff, but I just "knew" it was not the right time to ask those questions so I kept my mouth shut and sat there holding God's hand. After what seemed like a few minutes, but was actually a couple of hours, I opened my eyes and saw a nurse standing next to me asking me how I was feeling. I was feeling sad because I was perfectly happy with God, but I had to return back to the Earth and endure this life. I could have sat forever on that wall just holding God's hand.
1. When I was in college I was telling a friend about a book I read called "The Devils of D-Day". The guy who wrote it used actual demon names and satanic spells. The book was a fiction novel about the US and Britain making apact with the devil to possess 13 Sherman tanks in order to screw over the Nazis for 13 days. One tank broke down, it was sealed up and when it was opened years after WWII, the demon inside forced a reporter to help him look for his "brothers".
Well anyway I was telling my friend this and I mentioned the name of the head demon. All of a sudden I saw this swirling brownish/white mass in front of my friend's face. I walked up to it and it looked back at me. It looked like a dirty cloud with an eyeball stuck in the middle of it. I jumped back and it felt as if a soul crushing darkness was settling over me. I then pointed at it and said, "In the name of Jesus leave!" and that thing flew out the door, well, like a bat out of hell. It fled as if something or someone was after it. When it was gone I felt as if I was surrounded by angels and Jesus Himself was there, although I didn't see any of them.
2. When I had my 2nd hip replacement surgery I was nervous for some reason. they gave me the medicine to go to sleep and as soon as I closed my eyes I was walking down a stone path and I ended up in a small garden. There was a stone wall with pretty flowers growing next to it. There was a wooden gate and beyond the gate was all smokey and gray. Suddenly God appeared. He had no face and just had on a white robe, but I instantly knew it was God. He came over to me and we both sat on the stone wall and He told me He was here to be with me because He knew I was nervous. He then held my hand. The whole time I wanted to ask him questions such as if aliens exist and if I could see video of Him creating stuff, but I just "knew" it was not the right time to ask those questions so I kept my mouth shut and sat there holding God's hand. After what seemed like a few minutes, but was actually a couple of hours, I opened my eyes and saw a nurse standing next to me asking me how I was feeling. I was feeling sad because I was perfectly happy with God, but I had to return back to the Earth and endure this life. I could have sat forever on that wall just holding God's hand.
I can never tell if these sorts of things are jokes or serious. On one hand they make for a nifty tale, on the other, I worry about the sanity of the writer.
RAMA
It is no joke. This really happened. I find it fascinating that people will believe in aliens but doubt the existence of God. Is it because aliens don't hold us to any moral code, whereas God does?
Personally, while I don't "believe" in aliens, I find their existence more plausible than that of a god, especially the god outlined in Big 3 theism.
ETA: Part of this does have to do with morality, but it's the heinous immorality of god that puts me off, personally.
I hope you don't mind if I answer. It's not like the movies; the sky doesn't open, the choir doesn't sing; there's no bright light. I've experienced God speaking through a person -- the kind of freaky conversation where the person could not possibly know that the words had meaning. And I've done it myself, like been compelled to walk up to a complete stranger and say something that made no sense to me at all (in one instance, it was, Mail the letter.). Or sometimes I'm grappling with something, and yes, I'll open the Bible or hear a sermon or have a conversation that confirms what I know to be true.^ this
(btw, I've never ever done the "this" thing before - and it just felt so good, so right
Could I ask you both a couple of questions?
In my experience, this is how sane people (like yourselves) describe God "speaking" to them. It's a rare thing, and sometimes a life-changing thing. Defined in terms like these, my mother would say that God has "spoken" to her, as well.
My question is: what is it like, exactly? Do you hear an actual voice? Or is it just some kind of strong feeling, or intuition, or epiphany? Or do you receive some kind of sign or omen, like opening a Bible and finding a particularly compelling verse?
And finally: how do you know it's God? And not just your own intuition, or even a coincidence?
I won't debate or even question your answers. I really am just interested in hearing about your experiences.
But more often it's an impression of rightness. You know the feeling when you look at your SO, and you know exactly what he's/she's thinking and you're right there on the same page? It's not verbal or even body language. For me, that's how God speaks. How do I know it's not me? Because it happens when I've reached the end of myself. I'm not guessing, I'm not choosing between two equally plausible answers -- I just am empty. And God speaks, and it feels like: oh, that's the way.
I don't hear voices. I'm a reasonably intelligent person who can work my way through stuff and come to an answer. I know what that feels like, and I also know what it feels like when the answer doesn't come from me.
I'm not a UFO cultist. I believe aliens from other planets MAY exist because of the mathematical possibility of the numerous stars (300 sextillion estimated) and planets detected (well over 500 now), the similarity of natural elements available in the infinite universe which gives chance the ability to evolve such life. Also, the possibility of life in the universe is 100%...since there have been millions of species on this one planet already. Evidence for an independent, non-faith based God? Zero.
In fact, humans are quite capable of developing moral codes without god, thank you very much. There have been attempts to explain such things in the Humanist Manifesto I and II and many other places. Its generally thought that human sociality is the greatest influence on origins of human morals. It pre-dated the human predilection for using supernatural explanations for everything from the outside world to thoughts and feelings. In many cases (if not all) religion grew to provide structure, and often for cultures to enforce their own beliefs on others (tribal, then often gender and racial biases).
RAMA
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