What do you want out of a sci-fi?

[Sisk0]

I don't know if this will go down well on a Star Trek forum, but i love Babylon 5.

If a new show was to come out, that was exactly like b5 in every way (although possibly better effects and no 5th season, and a longer shadow/vorlon war) that would be my favourite show ever!

I want story arcs, meaningful characterisation, good continuity, interesting alien designs, and a conflict like the vorlon shadow one that shows multiple realistic politacal/ethical perspectives rather than just "good" vs "evil" or "human" vs "alien"

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I don't know if this will go down well on a Star Trek forum, but i love Babylon 5.

If a new show was to come out, that was exactly like b5 in every way (although possibly better effects and no 5th season, and a longer shadow/vorlon war) that would be my favourite show ever!

I want story arcs, meaningful characterisation, good continuity, interesting alien designs, and a conflict like the vorlon shadow one that shows multiple realistic politacal/ethical perspectives rather than just "good" vs "evil" or "human" vs "alien"

Ha, I love Babylon 5 too, but I'd like to see a series that's as good as that one, not exactly the same!

 

[Shazam!]

Most sci-fi is tremendously dull, with over-qualified know-it-alls spouting technobabble.

I like the human element, the humour, the wonder.

For this reason, I've decided that the best sci-fi show of recent times is Futurama.

 

[RandyS]

Most sci-fi is tremendously dull, with over-qualified know-it-alls spouting technobabble.

I like the human element, the humour, the wonder.

For this reason, I've decided that the best sci-fi show of recent times is Futurama.

All the characters were good in some way, but Bender carried that show all by himself.

 

[Myasishchev]

Could you imagine Firefly without Morena Baccarin

Yes. She was the least important character. They could have dispensed with the character and actress altogether.

And did! in Serenity, to no one's chagrin, relegated to what amounted to a cameo appearance.

For everyone clamoring for long story arcs, that would be great, if you have writers actually capable of handling it without introducing gaping plot maws into the story in order to get to their desired conclusions. Or writers who actually have a good idea for their desired conclusions. Witness Battlestar Galactica, which had no actual conclusion in mind and just ignored swathes of its own continuity to grasp a poisonous fruit of an ending; or the far-too-beloved Babylon 5, which evidently had a planned conclusion, which was unfortunately laughably simplistic, on top of a plot that revolved around the machinations of the world's most brain-damaged omnipotent villains.

I'm with Deckerd: as much as I love the idea of long-form storytelling, I've never seen an SF TV show attempt it and not fuck it up to one extent or another.

I think anyone who attempts it should read the full run of Gaiman's Sandman ten times before writing word one. That's how you do long-form storytelling with a complex conclusion.

 

[RoJoHen]

Could you imagine Firefly without Morena Baccarin

Yes. She was the least important character. They could have dispensed with the character and actress altogether.

And did, in Serenity, to no one's chagrin.

Debatable. The Mal/Inara relationship was one of my favorite things from the series, and I missed it terribly in the movie. Inara had several deleted scenes, which I wish had been left in the final film.

 

[Myasishchev]

I mean, personally, I liked her character okay. I thought she represented a sort of a really romanticized view of prostitution, but why not? It's the Future.

 

[Vincent Law]

I'm with Deckerd: as much as I love the idea of long-form storytelling, I've never seen an SF TV show attempt it and not fuck it up to one extent or another.

Have you watched Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex or Cowboy Bebop?

 

[Myasishchev]

Sure I have.

The Laughing Man season was pretty darn well-done.

I'm still not sure what Kuze was doing as part of an anti-immigrant group, and then returning to form as an immigrant savior. I'm not sure if that's my fault or not, if I missed or forgot an explanation. But all told the Refugee season was pretty cool, too.

As for Cowboy Bebop, a)26 episodes isn't really that long-form, and b)the actual serialized story consists of only, iirc, five, with a combined runtime not any longer than a conventional film. That said, Spike's story is most effective in the context of the 26 episode run, but Bebop's still only a one-season show, far more like a miniseries than, say, Battlestar Galactica, with its seventy or eighty episodes and seasonal breaks.*

Which is why it would be premature to herald, for example, anime SF as being any particularly better at long-form storytelling. They just have a business model that is better suited for that kind of storytelling.

But speaking of animated shows, possibly the best actual long-form storytelling SF show on these days is The Venture Bros.

*Now maybe Bebop did have seasonal breaks when it first aired. If so, I'll concede that the challenges in its production were more similar. But I'm pretty sure it didn't.

 

[6079SmithW]

I bear this in mind when people bemoan the early death of Firefly. It never had a chance to become a travesty of itself. Only the good die young.

Yes. I am a newcomer to the show but I quickly realized that one of the main reasons Firefly is such a cult hit is that it was cut down in its prime before the actors and writers had a chance to become bored and uninspired. If it had gotten several more seasons and more movie sequels it would have become mediocre and complete crap.

 

[Vincent Law]

I'm still not sure what Kuze was doing as part of an anti-immigrant group, and then returning to form as an immigrant savior. I'm not sure if that's my fault or not, if I missed or forgot an explanation. But all told the Refugee season was pretty cool, too.

He had gotten a virus, but ended up defeating it and going back to being a savior for the immigrants.

As for Cowboy Bebop, a)26 episodes isn't really that long-form, and b)the actual serialized story consists of only, iirc, five, with a combined runtime not any longer than a conventional film. That said, Spike's story is most effective in the context of the 26 episode run, but Bebop's still only a one-season show, far more like a miniseries than, say, Battlestar Galactica, with its seventy or eighty episodes and seasonal breaks.*

Which is why it would be premature to herald, for example, anime SF as being any particularly better at long-form storytelling. They just have a business model that is better suited for that kind of storytelling.

But speaking of animated shows, possibly the best actual long-form storytelling SF show on these days is The Venture Bros.

*Now maybe Bebop did have seasonal breaks when it first aired. If so, I'll concede that the challenges in its production were more similar. But I'm pretty sure it didn't.

There were no seasonal breaks, and yes, it was a one season show, but a one season series is still a series. While Cowboy Bebop's main storyline with Spike was only a few episodes long, it was still consistent over the course of the series and resolved without any major mistakes. The same could be said for the storylines of all the other characters in the series.

Of course these are simply two series I could think of off the top of my head. I had been tempted to name Ergo Proxy, but despite my attachment to it, I have to admit that the series stumbled more than once and wasn't really resolved all that well. The same could be said for Zipang, unless it gets any further seasons to resolve its storyline.

I'd hazard a guess that the main problem with more traditional sci-fi series is that most of them simply aren't planned out in advance. After all, with most series in the US, they tend to keep going until the series is canceled, or unless the studio decides on a number of seasons. It would be interesting if another series could plan everything out in advance, but it would need support from its network, and even then there could be other hurdles, such as actors leaving the show.

 

[C_Miller]

I bear this in mind when people bemoan the early death of Firefly. It never had a chance to become a travesty of itself. Only the good die young.

Yes. I am a newcomer to the show but I quickly realized that one of the main reasons Firefly is such a cult hit is that it was cut down in its prime before the actors and writers had a chance to become bored and uninspired. If it had gotten several more seasons and more movie sequels it would have become mediocre and complete crap.

It MAY have become mediocre or complete crap. Who knows what it would have ended up like? It could have gone on for several more seasons and kept up the same quality. I will say that it had the most consistant set of early episodes of any Joss Whedon show. That could have meant it would have burnt out earlier or it was an omen of a strong series throughout. So, who really knows what would have happend.

 

[Mistral]

Going back to what I said earlier-The biggest problem w/mass media SCIFI is playing to the cliches. Hollywood does that because its what they think scifi is when it really has so much more to offer. I'd like to see a knowledgeable True Believer make a series based on one of the many fantastic books/novelettes that are out there. One that doesn't involve the Noble Earthmen fighting evil BEMs (Galactica, B5), tons of starship battles (Earth: AAB), etc...

 

[Myasishchev]

I'm still not sure what Kuze was doing as part of an anti-immigrant group, and then returning to form as an immigrant savior. I'm not sure if that's my fault or not, if I missed or forgot an explanation. But all told the Refugee season was pretty cool, too.

He had gotten a virus, but ended up defeating it and going back to being a savior for the immigrants.

Oh, that was it. I had forgotten.

Actually, maybe season 2 was actually better. Its political machinations were a little more interesting, in that they involved nukes, rather than government corruption. Government corruption is terrible, of course, and people were dying, but tends to fail to hit the emotional buttons that, say, sex scandals or nuclear holocaust do. (I don't know if I did it here, but I've compared GitS season 1 to de Palma's Snakeyes, which is a very finely crafted thriller with a similarly unimpactful reveal--something about Gary Sinise's surface-to-air missile contract.)

There were no seasonal breaks, and yes, it was a one season show, but a one season series is still a series.

Yeah, a really short series.

Of course these are simply two series I could think of off the top of my head. I had been tempted to name Ergo Proxy, but despite my attachment to it, I have to admit that the series stumbled more than once and wasn't really resolved all that well. The same could be said for Zipang, unless it gets any further seasons to resolve its storyline.

Pretty much any given Gundam show attempts relatively long-form storytelling and fails.

I'd hazard a guess that the main problem with more traditional sci-fi series is that most of them simply aren't planned out in advance. After all, with most series in the US, they tend to keep going until the series is canceled, or unless the studio decides on a number of seasons. It would be interesting if another series could plan everything out in advance, but it would need support from its network, and even then there could be other hurdles, such as actors leaving the show.

There's also the issue of expense. I don't know how much it costs to make either an anime or a traditional live action SF program, but I would have to imagine, say, BSG was more expensive than CB. More money means more risk which means more incentive to meddle. Actually, I say incentive, but I mean necessity: these people aren't there to make art except as a side effect; they're there to serve their shareholders. And given that the art that does happen to be created cannot be made without financial success, this is well.

Going back to what I said earlier-The biggest problem w/mass media SCIFI is playing to the cliches. Hollywood does that because its what they think scifi is when it really has so much more to offer. I'd like to see a knowledgeable True Believer make a series based on one of the many fantastic books/novelettes that are out there. One that doesn't involve the Noble Earthmen fighting evil BEMs (Galactica, B5), tons of starship battles (Earth: AAB), etc...

Yeah, BSG let me down in particular because it was such a tease when it came to its SFnal devices. Not that I, personally, would have gotten rid of the starship battles...

 

[Vincent Law]

Anime tends to have a bit more bang for the buck than live action, because money that would be spent on sets and the like can instead be spent on animation. This is part of why the idea of a Star Trek anime tends to appeal to me, especially if it was done by Production I.G.

 

[lennier1]

This is part of why the idea of a Star Trek anime tends to appeal to me, especially if it was done by Production I.G.

With characters like Boobs Of Nine and T'Pol they'd probably need Gainax.

 

[Australis]

I don't get the hate for Jeri Ryan, she's a good actress.

I for one, thought the catsuit was easy on the eye, but it's her acting that kept me interested, she would have got very dull if all she was was mammary glands.

 

[LitmusDragon]

^ Hear, hear.

 

[Galileo7]

The future technology(weapons, vehicles, communicators, ships) as depicted by imaginative production designs in miniatures/CG and sets.

 

[starfox]

I don't get the hate for Jeri Ryan, she's a good actress.

I for one, thought the catsuit was easy on the eye, but it's her acting that kept me interested, she would have got very dull if all she was was mammary glands.

The only thing I didn't like about Seven of Nine was the shiny outfits and the impractical high heels.