What do we think of Alien 3?

[MeanJoePhaser]

Meh, this where they took liberties with the alien reproductive cycle and decided they are a Mary Sue lifeform. I recall, some of the CGI looked shitty, too.

Also, all those bald white people look alike in the dark.
(That's what she said. )

One major difference is that Cameron is a master of mass appeal and Fincher is not. Ridley Scott walks the line inbetween (let's not forget Blade Runner bombed in the USA).

 

[Anwar]

Actually, the idea of the Alien taking the form of the host body it was implanted into was HR Giger and Ridley Scott's idea. Fincher and co were the ones to actually do something intelligent with it (aside from the first movie).

 

[Kaijima]

The full director's cut of Aliens is about as intelligent a big action film as you're going to get, and I mean that as a compliment. That "lovey dovey" stuff in Aliens is not lame. It's hard-won, at great expense, cost of life, and personal trauma through the course of the story. Aliens is one film that works for its "happy ending" and doesn't feel saccharine as the credits roll.

While Alien3 has some fascinating elements and half a bag of good ideas, no version of the film is a complete movie, or a polished story. It doesn't have the zen garden perfection of Alien's minimalism and patient horror. It can't match the industrialized action or frentic terror of Aliens. And no matter what anyone thinks of Aliens, it was a terrible move and a betrayal of the story to kill Hicks and Newt off-camera before the movie even begins.

Alien3 was the first movie I'd ever seen where a noticeable number of people disavow that it's canonical - that it really follows Aliens. And I hate to say it, but I have to agree; it is such a mess and it betrays far too much of the story, that it is a worse than useless sequel - it hurts the film that precedes it.

 

[SilentP]

I'm leaning towards 'meh', but my opinion of it is really inbetween meh and good here. I rewatched the Quadrilogy recently, and in honesty I was dreading getting up to Alien 3. Watching it however (I watched all as Special Editions, not Theatrical, just to note) and I wasn't that badly put out/cringing. There was definite potential in there, it just misses the mark a fair bit (and the CGI was pretty piss poor).

 

[Deckerd]

Alien3 was the first movie I'd ever seen where a noticeable number of people disavow that it's canonical - that it really follows Aliens. And I hate to say it, but I have to agree; it is such a mess and it betrays far too much of the story, that it is a worse than useless sequel - it hurts the film that precedes it.

"Disavow that it's canonical"? Pardon me but

Also "it hurts the film that precedes it" is also just daft. Nothing can damage something that precedes it. It can be lousy in its own right but it can't go back in time and change a previous film, in the same way that the AvP films are an abomination but do nothing to harm Alien.

 

[Anwar]

And just to clarify, the only CGI in Alien 3 was at the end when the Alien's head is cracking open. Everything else was an advanced rod puppet and stop-motion puppetry. The techniques and designs they were using were groundbreaking, but FOX rushed them through post-production and didn't give them the time or money to make it fit into the scenes of the movie they edited it into.

 

[Bisz]

Also "it hurts the film that precedes it" is also just daft. Nothing can damage something that precedes it. It can be lousy in its own right but it can't go back in time and change a previous film, in the same way that the AvP films are an abomination but do nothing to harm Alien.

I disagree. I think that a bad sequel can hurt the movie that came before it. The same way that a terrible second half in a football/soccer game can ruin a terrific first half. You're halfway into the game, you have played it magnificently, are up 2-nil, now all you have to do is continue the game through to completion, but instead you pull down your pants and take a shit on the field. That is what the turd of Alien 3 did to the gem of Aliens, shit all over it.

Aliens is and always will be a fantastic movie, but not getting the proper payoff, that it so deserved, to everything that it set up does hurt it - at least int he sense that it doesn't help it.

 

[Bisz]

And just to clarify, the only CGI in Alien 3 was at the end when the Alien's head is cracking open. Everything else was an advanced rod puppet and stop-motion puppetry. The techniques and designs they were using were groundbreaking, but FOX rushed them through post-production and didn't give them the time or money to make it fit into the scenes of the movie they edited it into.

Conclusion: terrible effects.

In other words: part 3 of the franchise had worse effects than parts 1 and 2. Never a good thing.

 

[Anwar]

Not terrible, if they had been given more time they would've fit in fine.

That people keep assuming it's lousy CGI simply shows that they just don't do any research anymore.

And no, Alien 3 didn't "destroy" anything. It just RESTORED the grim realism of Alien by showing you what stupidity the "Nuclear Family" in space stuff was. I mean, Ripley hardly KNEW any of those people to begin with! At least with Dr Clemens he was a genuine kindred spirit, unlike Hicks.

 

[SilentP]

That people keep assuming it's lousy CGI simply shows that they just don't do any research anymore.

OK, I might be wrong in thinking it was CGI, I just remember there were points when watching the alien in motion, whatever the technique that was being attempted to use was incredibly jarring, mainly the heavy black line edging if anyone remembers where that came up.

 

[Anwar]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound insulting.

Like I said, if they hadn't been rushed then the would've been able to make the composition fit better so it's coloring and lines wouldn't stick out so clearly. There's no way they could've used a real mechanical model for the high-velocity creature they created so they had to use the advanced rod-puppetry.

 

[Bisz]

Not terrible, if they had been given more time they would've fit in fine.

And, as Scotty put it, if my granny had wheels she's be a wagon...

The effects sucked. If they were good... the would be good, duh, but they aren't.

 

[Silvercrest]

Alien3 was the first movie I'd ever seen where a noticeable number of people disavow that it's canonical - that it really follows Aliens. And I hate to say it, but I have to agree; it is such a mess and it betrays far too much of the story, that it is a worse than useless sequel - it hurts the film that precedes it.

"Disavow that it's canonical"? Pardon me but

I'll just say that Ripley apparently had some very interesting dreams aboard the Sulaco. And is still dreaming. Along with Hicks, Newt, and Bishop. Safely on the way back to Earth.

Prison planets! Cloned aliens! Brad Dourif! The Betty! And now, Aliens and Predators on Earth! What will she dream about next?


That's canon! Nothing onscreen to disprove it!

 

[Anwar]

Not terrible, if they had been given more time they would've fit in fine.

And, as Scotty put it, if my granny had wheels she's be a wagon...

The effects sucked. If they were good... the would be good, duh, but they aren't.

If it had been Aliens' effects that weren't good, and I offered the reason why, I get the feeling you'd say "Yeah, I agree totally with that. They needed more time."

And I'll be honest, people who go on about how A3 HAD to be a dream because they can't handle the reality that Cameron's lovey-dovey "We're a big family" BS was squashed like the inanity it is, have no guts.

 

[Ward Fowler]

Aliens is very mature and intelligent

According to Gale Anne Hurd when she first screened Aliens for a cynical industry audience in Hollywood people got up and cheered for her 'Bitch' line.

Ladies and Gentlemen, he rests his case.

 

[Silvercrest]

In my case, I have never seen Alien3 because nothing I've heard about it interests me in the slightest. Ditto with the AvP movies. (I did see Resurrection, but regretted it-- and it had a relatively happy ending.)

Does total disinterest count as "no guts"? I don't insist all these movies HAVE to be a dream, but I say so because it amuses me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'll just say that Ripley apparently had some very interesting dreams aboard the Sulaco. And is still dreaming. Along with Hicks, Newt, and Bishop. Safely on the way back to Earth.

Dark Horse adapted Aliens in the early 90s as Aliens: Newt's Tale, retelling the story of the film from Newt's perspective. And the ending of the story reconciles the earlier Aliens comics (with Hicks, Newt, Ripley, and the Xenomorph-infested Earth) as hypersleep nightmares Newt had aboard the Sulaco en route to Fury-161.

So, no, there's nothing to disprove the idea that Alien 3 is just Ripley's nightmare.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

And I'll be honest, people who go on about how A3 HAD to be a dream because they can't handle the reality that Cameron's lovey-dovey "We're a big family" BS was squashed like the inanity it is, have no guts.

The dream stuff is silly (But then so was the idea that SUPERMAN RETURNS and Halloween H20 ignored every sequel after the second one).

Your contempt for ALIENS means you won't appreciate Cameron's vision, which you dismiss as lovey-dovey because it isn't grim and brooding enough.

I suppose Ripley should've been like

Ripley: "Aren't they under a reactor?"

Gorman: "So?"

Ripley: "So, they could damage something...and...whadda I care? I'm gonna go back to reading my Ayn Rand novel."

Later...

Ripley: "I read the official reports, Burke! You sent those people to that ship and...

Burke: "Ripley, I can explain...

Ripley: "...didn't even give me credit for telling you about it! You greedy sunavbitch!"

Later...

Ripley: "Fuck it, I'm not going back for Newt, that clumsy little twit. I'm looking out for number 1! I remember what happened when I went back for that darn cat! Get me off this fuckin' rock, Bishop."

Hicks: "Why did you even agree to go back to LV426?"

Ripley: "Mickey D's wasn't paying the wage. I'm 80 years old and I can't even get social secuirty...and aren't you dead yet?"


And the alien taking attributes of its host, well, some ideas are best left undeveloped. PREDALIEN...goddamn it. Stupid. Doggie alien...less stupid, but WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE MONSTER otherwise people will realize they've seen all this shit before. (Cameron did that, too, by creating a queen.)

I'm just glad I saw ALIENS before I became such a cynic when it comes to cinema.

 

[Anwar]

I'd been more satisfied if Aliens ended with Hicks dying at the Colony and Ripley sacrificing herself to blow the Queen out the airlock. Newt, totally traumatized, would be left alone with a damaged Bishop as the ship goes back to Earth.

THAT is an ending more fitting for the Alienverse.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

I kinda wanted the queen to fall out of the landing strut of the lander...dead...crushed when the gear retracted because she was a dumb bug who didn't understand hydrolics.

Ripley laughs "I'm not cleaning that mess up."

Bishop: "I'm an andriod, not a custodian."

Newt: "I need to pee-pee."

Hicks: "He lied...I'm Hudson...he was Hicks..."