What did you think of the Cardassians and Bajorans when they first appeared?
- Thread starter MikHutch
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I thought the Cardassians were scary when I first saw them. That may also have been their initial make-up, the way Starfleet experiences during the war were described and how Jellico described them as a pack of wolves (ok, that was in a slightly later ep), and tried to negotiate with them.
I didn't have any particular thoughts on the Bajorans at first. They were just one of those other, countless humanoid races.
I didn't have any particular thoughts on the Bajorans at first. They were just one of those other, countless humanoid races.
Well, Cardassians date all the way back to season 4 The Wounded, & to be honest, I thought their look was a little dumb, like we'd hit the saturation point on bumpy-faced BS, and it kind of made me miss the more fantastical season one & two species like Benzites, Binars or even the Ferengi, among others.
However, overall I thought the episode, the premise & the history they added was phenomenal, especially the O'Brien backstory. Some of the best writing to ever be added to Star Trek.
Then, when they introduced Bajorans with Ensign Ro, a season later, I really felt it was the beginning of some of the best story they'd ever had. It marked a point where they were wisely finding a new direction away from all the Klingon stuff they'd had up til then, which was good, but had really run its course by then IMHO.
Although admittedly, they didn't do themselves any favors with the Bajorans look either, because it almost seemed like they'd heard my initial gripe about the gratuitous Cardassian bumpy-faced BS, & answered by saying "What if they just have only a little nose wrinkle?" Which is also a little silly.
Then when DS9 reworked the Trill to only have liver spots, instead of how they'd looked in The Host, I just gave up, because it was too obviously the gender factor, of making the women look pretty & the men look Play-Doh faced.
But all in all, the Cardassian/Bajoran stuff I always felt was excellent, & it introduced some outstanding acting talent in Alaimo & Forbes. That DS9 chose to center their entire show premise around it was questionable, because you just knew that it would run thin eventually too, just like the Klingon stuff, but it held up pretty well there too imho & fortunately they'd work in other things eventually too.
However, overall I thought the episode, the premise & the history they added was phenomenal, especially the O'Brien backstory. Some of the best writing to ever be added to Star Trek.
Then, when they introduced Bajorans with Ensign Ro, a season later, I really felt it was the beginning of some of the best story they'd ever had. It marked a point where they were wisely finding a new direction away from all the Klingon stuff they'd had up til then, which was good, but had really run its course by then IMHO.
Although admittedly, they didn't do themselves any favors with the Bajorans look either, because it almost seemed like they'd heard my initial gripe about the gratuitous Cardassian bumpy-faced BS, & answered by saying "What if they just have only a little nose wrinkle?" Which is also a little silly.
Then when DS9 reworked the Trill to only have liver spots, instead of how they'd looked in The Host, I just gave up, because it was too obviously the gender factor, of making the women look pretty & the men look Play-Doh faced.
But all in all, the Cardassian/Bajoran stuff I always felt was excellent, & it introduced some outstanding acting talent in Alaimo & Forbes. That DS9 chose to center their entire show premise around it was questionable, because you just knew that it would run thin eventually too, just like the Klingon stuff, but it held up pretty well there too imho & fortunately they'd work in other things eventually too.
understandable
Oh boy, one of the things I dislike most about this era is the repetitive forehead ridge aliens. only thing worse is the aliens looking exactly like humans. (looking at you, Betazoids! ugh). I'll say the Cardassians at least have more intricate designs and distinct coloring than many others
the trills are another one. I enjoy the race but their design is boring. But hey, you can't let that get in the way of sexism on this supposedly enlightened series!
anwyays, I generally agree. I think in some ways they did better than the Klingons who, fun as they are, can seem one note. They brought more versatility to the ideas of conquest and colonization only vaguely discussed before with Klingons & Romulans
Yup. Excessive bumpy-faced BS was probably the main disappointment I have with 90s Star Trek, not that it wasn't inventive or even artistic, because it was at first, but it just became too pervasive. It eventually was every type of actor playing an alien, & I really had wanted so much more.
One of my biggest praises of TNG was its ability to make us feel we were in the universe of the TOS movies. They did manage to capture that esthetic on a TV budget, except that by season 5 they resigned themselves to scaling down the alien looks to just varied face shapes, which certainly wasn't the universe we saw even in the court-martial audience from TVH
The 1st four TNG seasons had spread some of that bumpy-faced stuff around too, but it was less pervasive & interspersed with more elaborate alien designs too. It didn't overtake the esthetic wholly like it would later. Granted, those seasons spent a lot of time with just human looking aliens as well, but that's always been part of the franchise. However, they also added unique ones.
Seemed like a "course correction" from the no conflict in Starfleet and declawing the Klingons.
I was referring to Starfleet officers. Ro introduced a "rebellious" element.
I thought you meant the declawed Klingons lol
Which is true, but they didn't necessarily need a new conflict species, because they still had Romulans going strong out there in S3 & 4.
What the Bajorans also introduced was a not so picture perfect vision of Starfleet geopolitics, but in truth, there's always been glimpses of that.
If Ro was essentially Yar 2.0, then Bajor really was the deeper dive into that Turkana IV type scenario, which also shows up in S4.
Wasn't fond of the Cardassians, plenty of room existed for Romulans and Borg - never mind the Ferengi were so badly mishandled.
Then came 'Ensign Ro".
That added more gravitas to the Cardassian situation (and DS9).
Then came 'Ensign Ro".
That added more gravitas to the Cardassian situation (and DS9).
Not to mentioned Talarians, who they apparently were at a war some decades prior, before they introduced the Cardies.
In terms of irl appearances, yeah, Ro was the first Bajoran. They haven't made earlier chronological appearances as far as I know either
This is why I wish they had a Bolian main character. They already the makeup and a vague concept of their culture. DS9 and/or Voy (heck, even Ent) could've fit one in there instead of another forehead/no difference alien
ST sadly never developed the Romulans well enough, or at least didn't attempt to until Picard. They have cool cloaking technology and eagle-shaped ships but while they're fun to see, they rarely actually achieved anything in terms of adversarial conflict on the level of the Klingons, Borg, Cardassians or Changelings
Wasn't fond of the Cardassians, plenty of room existed for Romulans and Borg - never mind the Ferengi were so badly mishandled.
Then came 'Ensign Ro".
Hmm, did you foresee them becoming a big alien race during their first episode? Because I found it odd how Starfleet suddenly had this recent war O'Brien was part off against a species we never met before (but later retconned to have contact with Earth by the 23rd Century)
I am glad DS9 redeemed the Ferengi but I always wonder how they could've worked as actually well made villains (Picard gave us a glimpse of that)
There had to have been some sort of long term plan for the Cardassians when they were introduced in The Wounded. After all, they went to the trouble of building a new ship model for them. They wouldn't have done that if they were only meant to be a one-off alien of the week.
Nice username
Yea that makes sense. I read somewhere it was to make a more humanistic, less expensive enemy for the Federation after the Borg
I heard it's because they thought the Romulans were overused. Ironic considering the Cardassians ended up getting used a lot
i think the issue is TNG didn't have many Vulcans so the whole point of Romulans, the Vulcans who decided to be imperialists, is lost. Cardassians didn't have that baggage and could be used to create a new rivalry
I liked the episode in which the Cardassians were introduced, because it provided three good things:
1. Some great backstory for O'Brien,
2. A new Federation enemy with a cool new ship,
3. And a new Federation starship design.
The only thing I didn't like were the goofy headpieces they wore. And apparently someone else working on the show felt the same, because that was the only time they were used. Their uniforms looked kind of like Kryten's body from Red Dwarf, but those got changed quickly too.
1. Some great backstory for O'Brien,
2. A new Federation enemy with a cool new ship,
3. And a new Federation starship design.
The only thing I didn't like were the goofy headpieces they wore. And apparently someone else working on the show felt the same, because that was the only time they were used. Their uniforms looked kind of like Kryten's body from Red Dwarf, but those got changed quickly too.
the headpieces indeed were hideous. I'm glad they dropped them
I do like Cardassian ships. they're another example of an enemy still being a threat despite not being nearly as powerful.
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