What did you think of Kirk kicking Kruge to his death?
- Thread starter Laughing Dragon
- Start date
Im just amazed at how much Kirk and the crew had to do during Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock and Voyage Home since they were right after the previous movie. Kirk and his crew really didnt have the time to relax due to getting blasted by Khan, going on a dangerous search and rescue for Spock and the whale space probe.
Saving the galaxy 3 times in a row. Starfleet should have given Kirk and gang beer, burgers, pizza something
Saving the galaxy 3 times in a row. Starfleet should have given Kirk and gang beer, burgers, pizza something
They certainly were busy, I wouldn't like to have been near them though as they don't seem to have changed clothes for several months between TSFS and TVH, must have been a bit ripe by the time they get to 80s san Francisco
I wouldn't call defeating Khan "saving the galaxy", but YMMV.
Also, TVH is set over two months after TSFS, so Our Heroes did have some time to relax.
Was Vaal a creature? I got the distinct impression it was a machine.
Apollo was literally holding his ship with a big green hand and demanding they stay and worship him. How could he "walk away"?
I'm not sure why you're betting on the tribbles in that altercation...
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Well, in TVH Spock managed to come back at the exact same time they left, that's remarkable given that he had to make a guess.
"He trusts your guesses more than other people's facts."
I'd rather argue the heroes had scant use for their San Francisco wear on the hot desert world, and placed all that in a closet for the three months, only taking it out again for the return home...
How racist of you.
Or Kirk. But he did think his XO was but a computer with printed circuits for a brain...
Apollo never said Kirk let alone the ship couldn't leave. The worshipping just had to happen first.
One of Kirk's most prominent failings is that he never is willing to sacrifice himself for his crew anyway. If he is in personal danger, he makes it be all about "his crew" to justify his antics. Even with the whole mankind and Federation at stake, he doesn't have the guts to commit strategically decisive suicide ("By Any Other Name"). He just bluffs till he wins a personal victory.
Which makes the ST3 altercation a somber moment: by kicking Kruge into the lava pit, Kirk is making a conscious choice to forfeit his own chance to escape. But then he uses that aped-Klingonese trick and escapes anyway; he always has one of those in his back pocket... Perhaps helping hide the facts of how and for whom he fights.
Timo Saloniemi
I sincerely can't tell if you're joking.
Only partially (say, 47% or something). But, yes, always.
When writing a hero character, one always risks describing an abusive and cowardly villain. Especially when the hero comes with "adversaries" and "command". TOS is conservative military entertainment at heart, facing both the key risks head on. And Kirk is the bully who whips hippies to submission, the xenophobe who doesn't negotiate with alien life in good faith, the champion of Earth Ways of the Sixties (and telling the nineteen- and twentytwo-sixties apart there is of course an exercise in futility).
He probably still ends up being more a good guy than a bad one. But having that durasteel rod in his ass makes him a poor diplomat - not in dealing with Klingon scum, but certainly in dealing with the likes of Vaal or Apollo or Landru, whom the Federation would probably rather enjoy having on their side.
Timo Saloniemi
When writing a hero character, one always risks describing an abusive and cowardly villain. Especially when the hero comes with "adversaries" and "command". TOS is conservative military entertainment at heart, facing both the key risks head on. And Kirk is the bully who whips hippies to submission, the xenophobe who doesn't negotiate with alien life in good faith, the champion of Earth Ways of the Sixties (and telling the nineteen- and twentytwo-sixties apart there is of course an exercise in futility).
He probably still ends up being more a good guy than a bad one. But having that durasteel rod in his ass makes him a poor diplomat - not in dealing with Klingon scum, but certainly in dealing with the likes of Vaal or Apollo or Landru, whom the Federation would probably rather enjoy having on their side.
Timo Saloniemi
If he is it’s not funny.
not directly, but Khan was a former dictator with grandeur manias, he would be looking for a world to *use* after having dealt with Kirk.
slightly earlier actually: they emerge right after the transmission, while the other bird of prey is probably not even in route towards the sun yet.
Well, at least they didn't meet themselves, which would have been a potential source of paradoxes.
Khan had access to a crew of augments, a Federation starship, and a weapon of mass destruction. Maybe they didn’t literally “save the galaxy…” but they certainly prevented a potential massive shitstorm.
Ironically they also created one. 
I'm being a little glib there, as I don't blame Our Heroes for the fact that Khan acquired a WMD (at least he only acquired one!)...OTOH, since they put Khan on CA5 in the first place and apparently didn't leave a sufficient warning regarding their Space Seed, perhaps they do bear some indirect responsibility.
I'm being a little glib there, as I don't blame Our Heroes for the fact that Khan acquired a WMD (at least he only acquired one!)...OTOH, since they put Khan on CA5 in the first place and apparently didn't leave a sufficient warning regarding their Space Seed, perhaps they do bear some indirect responsibility.
I’m sure he would. I was quoting Gary Mitchell there, but I believe he would conquer a world, consolidate his power there and then move to conquer more. And between his military genius, his enhanced lieutenants, the power of a starship and the might of Genesis he could have done a lot of damage for sure.
He was genetically designed to be a genius, or so we're told.
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