What did you love or didn't love about TWOK
- Thread starter startrekrcks
- Start date
This is getting a bit silly. Sci-fi movies tend to look dated far faster since they're more reliant (though not always) on special effects, and those advance at a very fast rate. TUC is now almost twenty years old, TWOK almost thirty, as previous poster wrote, THEY ARE DATED. However, both are good if you ignore the dated effects. If you mean TUC is dated because of the Cold War allegory, there are a lot of other contemporary political issues to link its themes to.
They are good windows into human history, I think. 
This is not a given. Again, if the special effects are done with enough carefulness and creativity, they can be timeless, like in "Metropolis", "2001: A Space Odyssey", which are both older than the Star Trek movies, yet still impressive visually.
Wrath of Khan is a very good movie, definitely one of the best Trek movies.
What I dislike most about it is that it set a new mold that all future Trek movies seemed to try to fit. Nothing wrong with action/adventure. But a movie more along the lines of the first about exploration/ideas would be most welcome.
What I dislike most about it is that it set a new mold that all future Trek movies seemed to try to fit. Nothing wrong with action/adventure. But a movie more along the lines of the first about exploration/ideas would be most welcome.
He looked pretty damned happy to have been in the picture in his interview on the Special Edition DVD a few years back -- he even asked Nicholas Meyer to write him another part.
How does TUC look more dated and cheaper than TWOK? 
Except for camera shakes and the lack of orange & teal color timing, TUC looks like it has been made just yesterday.
TWOK on the other hand aged badly at some points. The scenes aboard the Reliant, for example. They are so badly lit (even compared to the Enterprise bridge scenes in the same movie) that they look like they are from a bad sitcom. Plus the costume design didn't age very well, in my opinion, especially the augments.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch7/twok0418.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch4/twok0229.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuc/ch2/tuc0086.jpg
Except for camera shakes and the lack of orange & teal color timing, TUC looks like it has been made just yesterday.
TWOK on the other hand aged badly at some points. The scenes aboard the Reliant, for example. They are so badly lit (even compared to the Enterprise bridge scenes in the same movie) that they look like they are from a bad sitcom. Plus the costume design didn't age very well, in my opinion, especially the augments.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch7/twok0418.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch4/twok0229.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuc/ch2/tuc0086.jpg
Wrath of Khan was fantastic movie and I liked science and fiction based flick . One loved thing of the movie for me is , When Khan escapes from a 15-year exile to exact revenge on Kirk, the crew of the Enterprise must stop him from acquiring a powerful terraforming device.
Hmm...
Likes: I like the film's energy and pacing. I like the familiar feel of the characters if not always what they did. The performances of the familiar cast are generally good even if I question the actions of the characters. I like the look of the Reliant, a good variation of Starfleet design without looking like a kitbash (in contrast in TSFS the Excelsior is just damned ugly and the Grissom looks like a toy). I generally like Horner's score, but in a qualified way: it's good but it doesn't really feel like Star Trek to me. I prefer Gerry Goldsmith's TMP music that felt more like Star Trek on the big screen. I rather liked the Starfleet field jackets the crew wore. I liked some of the grittiness. I did like Kirstie Alley's portrayal of Saavik. Too bad she couldn't reprise the role later.
Dislikes: The story, for as has already been mentioned feels really contrived. Of course all fiction is contrived, but you should make an effort to avoid or minimize how obviously contrived it his. Numerous plot holes and logic flaws have already been mentioned upthread and I agree with them. I disliked the overt militaristic feel throughout. TMP got TOS' sensibility in regard to this better. I disliked how the ship battle was played out: it really felt more like two seagoing vessels battling rather than futuristic starships. I know Star Trek has done this before such as in TOS' "Balance Of Terror" but TOS still made it feel like starships and not naval boats. I hate the uniforms, they look ridiculous and more Honor Harrington than Star Trek. With the TMP uniforms it's the two-piece uniform I like and the one-piece not so much. I can agree with wanting more colour and style, but TWOK's uniforms were stupid looking as shipboard everyday service wear. I didn't mind Montalbn's performance of Khan when we first see him, but after he escapes the planet it's just pure ham, ham, ham. Khan in "Space Seed" had weight and presence, but after the introduction in the film Khan is an overdone caricature and not a worthy adversary. Finally I hated the whole training cruise scenario with the Enterprise a cadet ship. I wanted to throw Peter Preston out an airlock. It all smelled of a reset button after TMP. TMP had its flaws, but it nicely set the stage to go forward. TWOK feels like they wanted to rethink the whole thing and feels like a reboot of sorts.
I've enjoyed all the TOS based films to some degree or other when they were released, but the passing years haven't been kind in many respects. As such TMP DE and TWOK DE are the only films of the bunch I have in my DVD library. The rest just don't work for me anymore.
Likes: I like the film's energy and pacing. I like the familiar feel of the characters if not always what they did. The performances of the familiar cast are generally good even if I question the actions of the characters. I like the look of the Reliant, a good variation of Starfleet design without looking like a kitbash (in contrast in TSFS the Excelsior is just damned ugly and the Grissom looks like a toy). I generally like Horner's score, but in a qualified way: it's good but it doesn't really feel like Star Trek to me. I prefer Gerry Goldsmith's TMP music that felt more like Star Trek on the big screen. I rather liked the Starfleet field jackets the crew wore. I liked some of the grittiness. I did like Kirstie Alley's portrayal of Saavik. Too bad she couldn't reprise the role later.
Dislikes: The story, for as has already been mentioned feels really contrived. Of course all fiction is contrived, but you should make an effort to avoid or minimize how obviously contrived it his. Numerous plot holes and logic flaws have already been mentioned upthread and I agree with them. I disliked the overt militaristic feel throughout. TMP got TOS' sensibility in regard to this better. I disliked how the ship battle was played out: it really felt more like two seagoing vessels battling rather than futuristic starships. I know Star Trek has done this before such as in TOS' "Balance Of Terror" but TOS still made it feel like starships and not naval boats. I hate the uniforms, they look ridiculous and more Honor Harrington than Star Trek. With the TMP uniforms it's the two-piece uniform I like and the one-piece not so much. I can agree with wanting more colour and style, but TWOK's uniforms were stupid looking as shipboard everyday service wear. I didn't mind Montalbn's performance of Khan when we first see him, but after he escapes the planet it's just pure ham, ham, ham. Khan in "Space Seed" had weight and presence, but after the introduction in the film Khan is an overdone caricature and not a worthy adversary. Finally I hated the whole training cruise scenario with the Enterprise a cadet ship. I wanted to throw Peter Preston out an airlock. It all smelled of a reset button after TMP. TMP had its flaws, but it nicely set the stage to go forward. TWOK feels like they wanted to rethink the whole thing and feels like a reboot of sorts.
I've enjoyed all the TOS based films to some degree or other when they were released, but the passing years haven't been kind in many respects. As such TMP DE and TWOK DE are the only films of the bunch I have in my DVD library. The rest just don't work for me anymore.
To me it feels like 5 or more years went by and things simply changed.
I love TWoK, but it has at least as many plot holes as STXI.
Unlike any other Star Trek movie or episode where the space battles lasted minutes on screen, were a small portion of the script and not allowed to evolve for a long duration of the movie or episode:
TOS "Balance Of Terror" which was like a WW2 submarine versus destroyer battle was an excellent drawn out through the whole episode dramatic piece.
In WOK, Nicholas Meyer successfully brought us all a sense of old Earth Tall ships at sea battles ship to ship. The Enterprise 1701-refit drawn out battle with the Reliant was brilliant the way Meyer substituted the old tall sea ship's cannons rooms below deck for the future spaceship Enterprise Photon Torpedo Bay Rooms. Meyer even ended it with the burial at sea replaced by burial in space.
TOS "Balance Of Terror" which was like a WW2 submarine versus destroyer battle was an excellent drawn out through the whole episode dramatic piece.
In WOK, Nicholas Meyer successfully brought us all a sense of old Earth Tall ships at sea battles ship to ship. The Enterprise 1701-refit drawn out battle with the Reliant was brilliant the way Meyer substituted the old tall sea ship's cannons rooms below deck for the future spaceship Enterprise Photon Torpedo Bay Rooms. Meyer even ended it with the burial at sea replaced by burial in space.
1) I hated the fact, when Chekov figured out where they really were, why did they have to put on their helmets and GO OUTSIDE to beam back up??? Why not just call for an emergency beam up at that point, especially when they encounter Khan and his followers outside in the desert and winds?? Not even a quick warning to the Reliant they MAY be in some trouble....
2) The fact Enterprise is once again, the nearest ship to investigate Regula I. Does Starfleet purposely keep the Enterprise in hotspots, sort of an intergalactic ready rack? Do the other ships in the fleet EVER get any action or does Enterprise hog it all?
3) As said before, how could Reliant NOT tell a planet blew up, nor Chekov COMPLETLEY forgot about some mad man that tried to kill Kirk and take over the Enterprise only 15 years earlier. You would think, a traumatic event such as that, the mere MENTION of the system, would have you looking over your shoulder....
4) Why was it even necessary for Terrell to even beam down to the (obviously) harse conditions of Ceti Alpha V (VI). Why endanger the CAPTAIN of a starship just to check out a strange reading?
5) The awkward relationship with Kirk and David.... just was odd. Especially at the end (the hug).
6) Ignoring Savaaks advice/quote of regs when Reliant first approached when Comm is down. Kirk even felt it in his gut and at least ordered Yellow Alert. Or once it was known Reliant was up to something bad, when they locked phasers on Enterprise did NO ONE flip the switch to raise shields!!! (Or the fact shields were SO easily knocked down with a few hits!)
2) The fact Enterprise is once again, the nearest ship to investigate Regula I. Does Starfleet purposely keep the Enterprise in hotspots, sort of an intergalactic ready rack? Do the other ships in the fleet EVER get any action or does Enterprise hog it all?
3) As said before, how could Reliant NOT tell a planet blew up, nor Chekov COMPLETLEY forgot about some mad man that tried to kill Kirk and take over the Enterprise only 15 years earlier. You would think, a traumatic event such as that, the mere MENTION of the system, would have you looking over your shoulder....
4) Why was it even necessary for Terrell to even beam down to the (obviously) harse conditions of Ceti Alpha V (VI). Why endanger the CAPTAIN of a starship just to check out a strange reading?
5) The awkward relationship with Kirk and David.... just was odd. Especially at the end (the hug).
6) Ignoring Savaaks advice/quote of regs when Reliant first approached when Comm is down. Kirk even felt it in his gut and at least ordered Yellow Alert. Or once it was known Reliant was up to something bad, when they locked phasers on Enterprise did NO ONE flip the switch to raise shields!!! (Or the fact shields were SO easily knocked down with a few hits!)
