What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archons"?

[Maurice]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

cooleddie74 said:
Am I the only person who's puzzled that the absorption process is kind of inconsistent? Most of those absorbed in the episode are simply zapped by the Lawgivers' rods. But Kirk, Spock and McCoy are taken down to the big lab run by ?Marplon and strapped to a wall to have a big machine do it to them. What gives? If it were dirt-simple to just have the Lawgivers aim their zappers and do it, why the need for a big room full of equipment? Odd.

You're correct on that point. Sulu gets zapped by the empty tube and it's bliss time. Why it's necessary to drag Kirk and company to the dungeon of fun is inconsistent.

Another reason to not like this rather dull episode.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

It's certainly a lot better and more effective than the Lazarus episode from a week before, and creepier as well. But the inconsistencies in the absorption procedure(big room vs. zapping rods)as well as the cheesy and equally inconsistent ways in which the rods themselves work(some emit an electronic whine or zapping noise while one or two others shoot sparks and smoke...WTF?)just make this one another episode to grumble over. The Red Hour scenes are creepy, eerie and atmospheric and the Landru projection/hologram is effective and ominous enough, but there are too many logical loopholes in the plot to make it a genuinely good episode.

 

[Forbin]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

I was always puzzled by this alien races' clocks being exactly the same as ours. Maybe at The Red Hour they could CGI in a totally alien looking tower clock. Ya know, maybe with two extra hands and fewer numbers. And green. Or something.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Forbin said:
I was always puzzled by this alien races' clocks being exactly the same as ours. Maybe at The Red Hour they could CGI in a totally alien looking tower clock. Ya know, maybe with two extra hands and fewer numbers. And green. Or something.

I don't think they did. I don't have a firm memory of what the town square clock looked like in the Remastered episode, but I doubt they changed it.

 

[Trevacious]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Robot Santa said:
Except DeForest Kelley juts stands there holding his phaser up like it should be firing, but there's no beam!

Oh, I figured it was a character quirk, like Dr. McCoy was always doing that and Kirk would just pretend not to notice.

You know, the only time I can recall McCoy shooting anybody, right offhand, was when he had to phaser the Salt Vampire.

 

[Plum]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

DS9Sega said:
Perhaps some of you missed the point in the episode that the process of being asborbed is what allows Landru to force obedience. As Spock says, "Everything we've seen here so far seems to indicate some sort of compulsive, involuntary stimulus to action." And, yep, initially, the Lawgivers have no power over the Enterprise crew, and Landru must use hypersonics to render them unconscious. I agree with Plum that the Lawgivers are used to zero in on targets for Landru. The absorbed (the majority that cannot resist/are immune) all become Landru's eyes.

This doesn't necessarily answer how the lawgivers are able to kill one of the triad of the immune without a mechanism. Perhaps a highly directed Hypersonic blast?

Adding effects to the tubes would contradict the story, and the effect that IS there is in direct contradiction as well.

Could be the old guy just 'believed' he was to die, this whole controlled society had a strong 'cult' vib. He was pretty fragile and old anyhow. The smoke and flash from the Lawgivers 'staff' might trigger this response. 'some sort of compulsive, involuntary stimulus to action.' as you say.

For years, I interpreted the old guys death that way. I never really thought about it but I think it still might be the case given Landru's limits, such as I can divine at least.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

DS9Sega said:
You're correct on that point. Sulu gets zapped by the empty tube and it's bliss time. Why it's necessary to drag Kirk and company to the dungeon of fun is inconsistent.

Sulu appears, to Landru, just to be some weird remote wild element, and the remote tubes seem fine. Kirk and company are more clearly Archons, hard cases, and so are brought to the much more controlled environment for serious treatment. You know, like how you might have a guy modestly hurt be treated by first aid on the spot, while a serious injury will be taken to hospital.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Trevacious said:

Robot Santa said:
Except DeForest Kelley juts stands there holding his phaser up like it should be firing, but there's no beam!

Oh, I figured it was a character quirk, like Dr. McCoy was always doing that and Kirk would just pretend not to notice.

You know, the only time I can recall McCoy shooting anybody, right offhand, was when he had to phaser the Salt Vampire.

Phil Farrand in his 1994 Nitpicker's book lists the McCoy-phaser thing in this episode as a production error or plot oversight. He thinks that they originally intended to draw in a blue beam coming from McCoy's weapon but forgot in post-production.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

cooleddie74 said:

Trevacious said:

Robot Santa said:
Except DeForest Kelley juts stands there holding his phaser up like it should be firing, but there's no beam!

Oh, I figured it was a character quirk, like Dr. McCoy was always doing that and Kirk would just pretend not to notice.

You know, the only time I can recall McCoy shooting anybody, right offhand, was when he had to phaser the Salt Vampire.

Phil Farrand in his 1994 Nitpicker's book lists the McCoy-phaser thing in this episode as a production error or plot oversight. He thinks that they originally intended to draw in a blue beam coming from McCoy's weapon but forgot in post-production.

I don't think so - nobody on McCoy's side falls down. I think he was just covering their rear while Kirk and whoever cleared the front.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Then Farrand made the error. If true, it misled me for years to think they forgot to draw in the blue beam on his phaser. You have to admit, without really close inspection it does look like the 1967 optical team forgot something. Heaven knows TOS is notorious for forgetting or neglecting to insert phaser beams where they were often supposed to be.

 

[Plum]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Hmmm... doesn't look like a mistake to me as the woman directly in front of Bones didn't fall. I think Beaker Full Of Death is correct. McCoy simply didn't fire his phaser.

Trekcore pics - Return Of The Archons

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Then Phil Farrand originated the mistaken observation. I'd read it for over a decade and thought maybe he was right. What can I say, the guy IS a card-carrying Nitpicker! On the molecular level!

 

[Kryton]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

It's a shame they shut Farrand down....it would have been fun to read him ripping up VOY and ENT...even DS9 some more. Hell, even the rest of the X-Files!

I just re-read Farrand and re-watched that scene. It appears only one or two on McCoy's side succumbed. Maybe he didn't fire because he didn't have time to properly set the dispersion before Kirk's "fire" order. If the weapon wasn't properly calibrated, McCoy would be wise enough to NOT fire.

But, of course, that's a Treksplanation.

Farrand did find amusement in the "lighting panel" that was supposed to predate Landru. As a lightcasting device, it probably shouldn't have cast a shadow.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

^
True.

That advanced, flat lighting panel should have shone light on the wall behind it after Reger placed it on the shelf. Blame the limits of 1967 prop technology.

 

[Cyrus]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Forbin said:
I was always puzzled by this alien races' clocks being exactly the same as ours.

Yeah, it would have been nice if the clocks had an alien design. At the very least they should have left the numbers out.

 

[Timo]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

OTOH, the people there were 19th century Earth-American clothes, and live in matching houses.

Perhaps Landru has this Red Hour concept going on at a higher level, too? Perhaps every few centuries, he revamps his society to emulate "new cultural influences". What we see in the episode could in fact be a relatively recent makeover, a new fashion created by Landru out of the Archon databanks - with clothing, architecture and clock faces all derived from Earth originals.

That said, I would have preferred a clock without a conventional face at all. There's another very logical way to make a rotary mechanical timepiece: a vertical cylinder that rolls so that digits or marks on it, in a sinusoidal pattern, imitate sunrise and sunset. A horizontal cylinder could also mimic the sun cycle nicely enough. And the team already created a cylinder-faced timepiece, for "The Corbomite Maneuver"/"The Naked Time"!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[sturmde]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

Don't forget that these episodes were long before they'd solidly anchored down when things were...

IIRC, it mentions in The Making of or The World of Star Trek, that "it could be 2700 or 2800"...

Thus, most of the planets being visited in GR's original version, were long-forgotten colonies of Earth begun in the late 1900's and twenty-hundreds and 2100's.

In that context, all the human-appearing aliens and culture suddenly make a lot of sense.

When pegged (Simon?) to 2266, then that mostly no longer worked. A shame.

 

[Redfern]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

sturmde said:

IIRC, it mentions in The Making of or The World of Star Trek, that "it could be 2700 or 2800"...

Thus, most of the planets being visited in GR's original version, were long-forgotten colonies of Earth begun in the late 1900's and twenty-hundreds and 2100's.

In that context, all the human-appearing aliens and culture suddenly make a lot of sense.

Expand upon that. Earth itself could have had a second "Dark Ages" due to invasion or catastrophe. When society is rebuilt, it's not a simple linier or geometric progression of our present technology, but a skewed mish-mash. Thus one can more easily rationalize things like ships with warp drive and yet seemingly (by our standards) "clunky" computers.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Cyrus]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

sturmde said:
Don't forget that these episodes were long before they'd solidly anchored down when things were...

IIRC, it mentions in The Making of or The World of Star Trek, that "it could be 2700 or 2800"...

Thus, most of the planets being visited in GR's original version, were long-forgotten colonies of Earth begun in the late 1900's and twenty-hundreds and 2100's.

I thought of this being an earth colony while watching it. It's not just the cloths or the clock, there was one scene where Spock referred to the aliens as "quite human". But Landru being from 6000 years ago negates that theory.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: What Changes Would You Have For "The Return of the Archo

A lot of TREK dialogue contradicts itself when it comes to describing things as "quite human" one moment then coming up with something distinctly eerie and alien later in the episode.