What are your thoughts about seeing the prime universe again?

[Mudd]

Star trek is real. I've been watching it for years.

Based on your criteria for what constitutes "real Star Trek," it's a fact that you'll never see another new episode of it again. Your "real Star Trek" ended sixteen years ago. It's dead and gone, and Discovery will not be it.

Nor, for that matter, will future Trek movies.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Based on your criteria for what constitutes "real Star Trek," it's a fact that you'll never see another new episode of it again. Your "real Star Trek" ended sixteen years ago. It's dead and gone, and Discovery will not be it.

Nor, for that matter, will future Trek movies.

Prime Trek is back. Just admit it now. You were wrong.

 

[Mudd]

We're not discussing "prime Trek" - uniderth, among others, entertains the risible conceit that Enterprise, which took place in the oldTrek universe, is not "real Trek."

Read before posting, hmm?

 

[JWPlatt]

The backflips people are going through here to avoid taking Fuller at his word are astonishing.

Look at the bright side. It's an opportunity to start another thread "For the people who said that Fuller was lying about Prime......"

Does anyone here really think there's some advantage to lying about this?

Exercise. It's gives the fans something to do.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Anyone who thinks it's impossible--or even unlikely--that Fuller's statements could be (intentionally or otherwise) illusory, if not disingenuous, needs a quick lesson in marketing. To anyone outside this room and rooms like it, words like "prime" and Kelvin" are utterly meaningless. They are the spiritual equivalent to the arbitrary buzzwords manufacturers put on ...well... everything.

 

[Trekkin]

Look at the bright side. It's an opportunity to start another thread "For the people who said that Fuller was lying about Prime......"

Oh, I don't think he's lying.

I just recall the phrase: 'if it's not stated on screen, then it doesn't count,' getting a lot of use in discussions regarding the nature of the Nuverse. (Whether it was a branching/seperate timeline, or whether Spock & Nero had accidentally erased everything from ENT-NEM in their shenanigans.)

That perceived lack of 'on-screen' confirmation caused some people no end of angst. I'm simply foreseeing that situation may occur again, if the show just plows on ahead with its own story.

I suppose TPTB could do something really explicit to clarify the setting. Like, say...the final episode ending with Picard revealing the entire series was a holodeck simulation of past events, and then filling in Riker all about how Ambassador Spock was eaten by a wormhole during his failed attempt to save Romulus. Fans like that sort of thing, right?

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

There has never been any canon information regarding the size of Starfleet vessels from the 2230's. Since we have never seen any ships from that era previously, you cannot logically state that the Kelvin is "way too large to be consistent."

And yet it was offered as proof that DSC takes place in the Kelvin timeline. "The Discovery is too large to be a Prime universe ship".

Um...you do remember that the 'crazy' old guy was actually right, and the woman poo-pooing him was being completely duped by the person feeding her information?

I think your subconscious is trying to shoot your foot. Might want to be wary of it.

Did you think for a moment that that was the point I was trying to make? I guess that would have been too much to ask for. I find it hilarious though that you've obviously cast yourself in the role of the woman that was wrong and is trying to poo-poo my position. Maybe your subconscious mind is trying to tell you something, hmm?

 

[Trekkin]

Did you think for a moment that that was the point I was trying to make? I guess that would have been too much to ask for. I find it hilarious though that you've obviously cast yourself in the role of the woman that was wrong and is trying to poo-poo my position. Maybe your subconscious mind is trying to tell you something, hmm?

Are you under the impression that you better fit the decription of 'old and crazy,' than Bill and Dennis?

You certainly don't fit the 'disbelieving of authority' part of the character. You're kinda arguing from the complete opposite position. aka. Advocating that Fuller be taken at his word.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

...Exactly how old do you think Bill and Dennis are?

Ah, one can never tell with these Kohms.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And yet it was offered as proof that DSC takes place in the Kelvin timeline. "The Discovery is too large to be a Prime universe ship".

No, it was offered as proof that Discovery had been influenced by the Kelvin movies, and that it's taking liberties with Prime Trek continuity.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It's a show not data about a real historical event. It's going to take some "liberties" with the precious continuity, every new series has to some degree.

 

[Dukhat]

And yet it was offered as proof that DSC takes place in the Kelvin timeline. "The Discovery is too large to be a Prime universe ship".

Who said that? I sure didn't. I have no idea how large or small the ship is. And furthermore, it's size is meaningless anyway. Starfleet has ships of all sizes.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

The fact we're suppose to believe that this is the same visual universe as TOS. They shoehorn in the refit, but there is nothing visually left of TOS. Nothing. Beyond basic shapes and the arrowhead badge, you wouldn't know they were part of the same universe based on the look.

Many folks see TMP as a reboot of TOS, with TWOK wiping that away and starting over yet again.

Then many folks are wrong. There is a Prime Universe that consists of 10 movies, 5 TV series, one upcoming TV series (and one animated series). There is a Kelvin Universe that consists of 3 movies and there is a Mirror Universe that consists of a few episodes. Everything else is "head-canon" which is a synonym for personal preference.

Are you under the impression that you better fit the decription of 'old and crazy,' than Bill and Dennis?

You certainly don't fit the 'disbelieving of authority' part of the character. You're kinda arguing from the complete opposite position. aka. Advocating that Fuller be taken at his word.

I don't know exactly how old and how crazy @BillJ and @Dennis are.

Personally I don't see it as young vs old or rebelling against authority. I see it more as another version of Plato's allegory of the cave. Of course each one casts himself as the freed prisoner and all others with an opposing position as the prisoners living inside the cave watching the shadows. Every one is sure he's right and everyone else is blinded to the truth.

No, it was offered as proof that Discovery had been influenced by the Kelvin movies, and that it's taking liberties with Prime Trek continuity.

Size is not an indication of universe/timeline. The 685 meter Enterprise-E is not a Kelvin ship. It's not like the Constitution/Enterprise where we know that the Prime one is 289 meters and the Kelvin version is 725 meters. We haven't seen a ship like the Discovery before to know her prime/kelvin universe dimensions.

Who said that? I sure didn't. I have no idea how large or small the ship is. And furthermore, it's size is meaningless anyway. Starfleet has ships of all sizes.

No you didn't. I agree that size proves nothing. See above.

 

[Takeru]

Nope.

I'm one who said Prime was dead, because that's what all the evidence pointed to. Including Les Moonves' stated lack of interest in having Trek back on TV. But I don't mind admitting when I've been wrong, so there.

Still, I think it's overly optimistic to assume that "Prime" means having all kinds of references forward and backward in the timeline. Until I see it, it ain't happened.

Also, I'm thinking that the new show will be so different that there will be a faction that refuses to accept DSC as "Prime." Whatever happens, I can hardly wait.

That's what I'm thinking too. They say it's in the prime timeline but it will look and feel so different that it might just as well take place in the new timeline or a third one.

There's no way for example the sets, props, costumes, hairstyles etc. will look like this is the same timeframe as TOS.
The tricorder for example, a random smartphone looks more futuristic than Spock's black box with a tiny TV. People justify this by saying "Well, the tricorder can actually film your buttcrack from 500 miles away and has a a 80 gigashmorp harddrive ..." but made up hardware specs are irrelevant, it's about perception and Spock's clunky tricorder won't be perceived as futuristic.

Discovery may take place in the prime timeline but we will still not "see" it again, at least not in the way some people seem to expect.
This will be a modern series with modern aesthetics that has to look futuristic from a 2017 perspective, visually it will probably resemble nuTrek more than the old one.

It will also contradict TOS, it'll start with the arrowhead being used for all of starfleet and go from there, there's no way we won't see female captains or admirals, the klingons will have ridges etc.

 

[Mudd]

Are you under the impression that you better fit the decription of 'old and crazy,' than Bill and Dennis?

Improbable in the extreme.

 

[Mudd]

That's what I'm thinking too. They say it's in the prime timeline but it will look and feel so different that it might just as well take place in the new timeline or a third one.

We're calling it the Discoverse.

It'll save a lot of meaningless argument.

 

[BillJ]

Are you under the impression that you better fit the decription of 'old and crazy,' than Bill and Dennis?

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[SPCTRE]

We're calling it the Discoverse.

>in before Carl Spock<

 

[jaime]

One would have to be blind or...something...not to see the resemblances.

Resemblances both share with the original Trek continuity. One does not have to be Geordi LaForge to see that either.

It occurs to me I am now involved in a terrible fan argument over semantics. Do I get a badge?

 

[jaime]

Then many folks are wrong. There is a Prime Universe that consists of 10 movies, 5 TV series, one upcoming TV series and one animated series. There is a Kelvin Universe that consists of 3 movies and there is a Mirror Universe that consists of a few episodes. Everything else is "head-canon" which is a synonym for personal preference.



I don't know exactly how old and how crazy Bill and Dennis are.

Personally I don't see it as young vs old or rebelling against authority. I see it more as another version of Plato's allegory of the cave. Of course each one casts himself as the freed prisoner and all others with an opposing position as the prisoners living inside the cave watching the shadows. Every one is sure he's right and everyone else is blinded to the truth.



Size is not an indication of universe/timeline. The 685 meter Enterprise-E is not a Kelvin ship. It's not like the Constitution/Enterprise where we know that the Prime one is 289 meters and the Kelvin version is 725 meters. We haven't seen a ship like the Discovery before to know her prime/kelvin universe dimensions.



No you didn't. I agree that size proves nothing. See above.

There is the caveat that for a long time TAS was sort of considered non canon by the powers that were.

Also..this far in and no one has thought of applying or paraphrasing Clarkes law?
Any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from whatever lump of resin the effects shop has used this week. Or a salt and pepper shaker.