What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[1001001]

Picard Season One sucked the biggest suck that ever sucked.

Started out terrifically. I loved the “real world” repercussions. People swearing at the great Jean-Luc Picard!? Ensigns pretending not to even recognize him? Then…more Data bullshit. And then another fucking Soong. And then…the Robot Spaghetti Monster turned out to be real. That’s when I checked out, once I was done laughing.

Season Two was a very tiny bit better, but that’s not saying much at all.

I don’t think I’ve ever been as disappointed in a series as I have been in this one. TNG was my favorite, and I looked forward to it so much.

 

[wahwahkits]

Season Three of LD has so far been very boring. The producers and writers are either resting on their laurels or have run out of ideas.

 

[fireproof78]

I miss seeing heroes do those things for no other reason than it being just the right thing to do. Our world needs more of that.

In my opinion our world needs the why of doing the right thing. I want characters who are damaged, know that they are, and choose good anyway. Like Kirk, like Pike, like Picard now. Show me why choosing the right moral way is worth while despite pain and damage it causes, rather than assuming that I will automatically agree with the hero because it's the right thing to do. Tell me why.

 

[Lord Garth]

Picard Season 2 was a step down from Season 1. Has it been six months yet? No? Well, I'll leave it at I think they could've done a lot more with what they had than they did.

Picard Season 3? We'll see. They've never switched out almost the entire cast for a Star Trek show before (not including after "The Cage"). I'm looking forward to it, but I'm looking forward to it in the way of, "This is the movie I wish they made when I was in high school or college! Better late than never!"

 

[Farscape One]

November 5 will be 6 months since the PICARD season 2 finale aired.

In my opinion our world needs the why of doing the right thing. I want characters who are damaged, know that they are, and choose good anyway. Like Kirk, like Pike, like Picard now. Show me why choosing the right moral way is worth while despite pain and damage it causes, rather than assuming that I will automatically agree with the hero because it's the right thing to do. Tell me why.

Why is doing the right and moral thing only worth it if it is born out of pain and trauma? Why can't someone be moral and heroic simply because they are a good person?

I'm not saying pain and trauma can't lead to doing moral and heroic things, but it's been WAAAAAAYYYYYY OVERDONE since this century began. (And quite a lot in the 20th century, too.)

Saying only traumatized and pain ridden people can be moral and heroic devalues everyone else on the whole.

How about firefighters that choose that profession because it's a calling to serve a higher purpose of helping people? Or doctors (the ones who actually do care) and nurses? And while I'm not religious, I'm sure there are priests and nuns who genuinely do what they do because they want to help people.

In this world, the way it is, YOU tell me why we need the 'why'.

 

[fireproof78]

Why is doing the right and moral thing only worth it if it is born out of pain and trauma?

It's not.

In this world, the way it is, YOU tell me why we need the 'why'.

Because people need to know how to be heroic in spite of pain. There are a lot of hurting people out there who want to do good but don't know how to through their pain. Give me reasons, model success despite adversity.

I'm not saying pain and trauma can't lead to doing moral and heroic things, but it's been WAAAAAAYYYYYY OVERDONE since this century began. (And quite a lot in the 20th century, too.)

I don't care if it is overdone. People need it.

 

[fireproof78]

How about firefighters that choose that profession because it's a calling to serve a higher purpose of helping people? Or doctors (the ones who actually do care) and nurses? And while I'm not religious, I'm sure there are priests and nuns who genuinely do what they do because they want to help people.

Small disclosure: I choose my profession for these reasons. I have no trauma in my history. What I have learned in 5 years of doing this job is people hurt and need a Why to do good in the face of pain.

 

[Farscape One]

It's not.

Because people need to know how to be heroic in spite of pain. There are a lot of hurting people out there who want to do good but don't know how to through their pain. Give me reasons, model success despite adversity.


I don't care if it is overdone. People need it.

We have more than enough dark and dystopic movies and shows with traumatized protagonists. Eventually, people just get numb to that.

"Oh, ANOTHER hero who did this because of his (insert trauma)." (Clicks remote.)

And I have known people who just use their pain as an excuse to not bother to do anything. Or worse, inflict it on others.

Your reasoning works ways, you know.

 

[Farscape One]

Small disclosure: I choose my profession for these reasons. I have no trauma in my history. What I have learned in 5 years of doing this job is people hurt and need a Why to do good in the face of pain.

Then I applaud you, and thank you for your service.

I'm not saying the 'why' is unnecessary. I'm saying it's overdone, and retconning previous heroic figures like Picard does a disservice to those who simply want to do good because it's the right thing to do.

 

[Farscape One]

By the way... I LOVE the screen name 'Vincent Van Ghoul'! (I just told my wife about it, and she loves it, too.)

This is one of the reasons why Halloween is the best holiday of the year... ENDLESS PUNS!!!

 

[fireproof78]

Then I applaud you, and thank you for your service.

I'm not saying the 'why' is unnecessary. I'm saying it's overdone, and retconning previous heroic figures like Picard does a disservice to those who simply want to do good because it's the right thing to do.

I just don't agree but that's fair. I don't think any disservice is being done. But, that's my controversial opinion

We have more than enough dark and dystopic movies and shows with traumatized protagonists. Eventually, people just get numb to that.

That's on them. it doesn't change the necessity of it.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Then I applaud you, and thank you for your service.

I'm not saying the 'why' is unnecessary. I'm saying it's overdone, and retconning previous heroic figures like Picard does a disservice to those who simply want to do good because it's the right thing to do.

Would you say it is a retcon? Over the course of TNG Picard had plenty of trauma anyway - nearly dying at the hands of the Nausican, loss of the Stargazer, having to tell Dr Crusher than her husband had died - and then the films added his brother and his brother's family dying in a fire.

I think your point over characters needing trauma (or not needing I should say) merits discussion but I don't think Picard took him from untraumatised to traumatised, it just added something on top (although I'm sure it was alluded to in TNG that his upbringing was damaging?)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Peanut Hamper is an amazing character.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Peanut Hamper is an amazing character.

Wrong thread mate - looking for controversial opinions.

For all people's complaining about Endgame, losing 20 odd years of history, Harry's rise to captain being reverse (I'm looking at you Oddish), and so on it was absolutely the most Janeway thing to do and totally in character so I found it quite a satisfying conclusion to the season

Also Fury is one of my more watched episodes and I think it makes sense in its characterisation

 

[fireproof78]

Wrong thread mate - looking for controversial opinions.

For all people's complaining about Endgame, losing 20 odd years of history, Harry's rise to captain being reverse (I'm looking at you Oddish), and so on it was absolutely the most Janeway thing to do and totally in character so I found it quite a satisfying conclusion to the season

Also Fury is one of my more watched episodes and I think it makes sense in its characterisation

Now that's controversial!

 

[Captain's Coffee]

For all people's complaining about Endgame, losing 20 odd years of history, Harry's rise to captain being reverse (I'm looking at you Oddish), and so on it was absolutely the most Janeway thing to do and totally in character so I found it quite a satisfying conclusion to the season

I mean, she's the only character to ever get a reprimand from the Time Police, so, yeah, it is very much in character. I like Endgame quite a bit. It's really only the C/7 stuff that prevents me from loving it.

 

[Farscape One]

Would you say it is a retcon? Over the course of TNG Picard had plenty of trauma anyway - nearly dying at the hands of the Nausican, loss of the Stargazer, having to tell Dr Crusher than her husband had died - and then the films added his brother and his brother's family dying in a fire.

I think your point over characters needing trauma (or not needing I should say) merits discussion but I don't think Picard took him from untraumatised to traumatised, it just added something on top (although I'm sure it was alluded to in TNG that his upbringing was damaging?)

All those examples of trauma Picard experienced were much later in his life.

From the first episode, Picard has always been shown as very moral, ethical character. The only childhood trauma we ever see in TNG is he didn't have the best relationship with his father and brother, byt I would hardly call that traumatic, as a great deal of people have had similar issues. Certainly nothing like what happened to his mother.

The only example you mention that might be valid is when he was stabbed in the heart by the Nausicaan, but nothing we have ever heard or seen indicates he was anything but a moral person. (A cad, yes, but one could easily argue that has nothing to do with heroism or ethics.)

My point being that nothing in his youth ever pointed him to being the paragon of virtue we see in TNG by way of trauma... he was simply a good person doing good things.

 

[fireproof78]

I would argue Picard still is that good person doing good things (annoying in his presentation and elitist but still good). The change to him was how he engaged in relationships.

I don't think Picard change that history as much as perceived. I think him being stabbed through the heart was more informative of his moral development than other events.

 

[Weyoun 251]

All those examples of trauma Picard experienced were much later in his life.

From the first episode, Picard has always been shown as very moral, ethical character. The only childhood trauma we ever see in TNG is he didn't have the best relationship with his father and brother, byt I would hardly call that traumatic, as a great deal of people have had similar issues. Certainly nothing like what happened to his mother.

The only example you mention that might be valid is when he was stabbed in the heart by the Nausicaan, but nothing we have ever heard or seen indicates he was anything but a moral person. (A cad, yes, but one could easily argue that has nothing to do with heroism or ethics.)

My point being that nothing in his youth ever pointed him to being the paragon of virtue we see in TNG by way of trauma... he was simply a good person doing good things.

I agree with that entirely - but I also didn't see the issue with his mother as a driving force behind his determination to do good - I see it more as evidence for why early Picard was a dick and kept people at arm's length with S2 completing his acceptance of intimacy (emotionally and platonic).

If I saw, as you do, his mother's death as driving his good deeds then yes, I'd say it was ott

 

[shapeshifter]

I am not the same person I was 30 years ago, I don't expect Picard to be either. My circumstances got better over the years, his seems to have soured somewhat so his bitterness, dourness, whatever it is called, should not be unexpected, imo.

And you know what, all his apparent attributes in the past, knowing what we know now, had to have been him dealing with his trauma by wearing a mask. Troi and Crusher knew most about that though.