What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Farscape One]

The Borg were best in "Q Who" and "The Best of Both Worlds". I would also say if you take out the Borg Queen in FIRST CONTACT, the Borg were terrifying.

The other TNG appearances softened them, and VOYAGER completely defanged them.

Their concept is frightening in the same way the Cybermen on DOCTOR WHO are frightening. (I personally feel the Cybermen are THE most terrifying villain of that franchise.)

 

[ananta]

I’ve admitted it before, but TNG seasons 1-3 are my favourite. The first two are certainly flawed but had a certain spark, edge and lustre the latter seasons lacked. Space felt more dangerous and unknown. Everyone got a little too comfortable in later seasons, not least the writers. The series peaked relatively early with Best of Both Worlds and i don’t think anything in the subsequent seasons came close to that level of iconic, neck-grabbing splendour.

Michael Piller’s redirected focus on primarily character driven storytelling was fine in theory, only it led to a whole heap of rather tepid soap opera dramas, and far too many episodes dealing with characters’ family members, who invariably weren’t that interesting.

 

[fireproof78]

The Borg were best in "Q Who" and "The Best of Both Worlds". I would also say if you take out the Borg Queen in FIRST CONTACT, the Borg were terrifying.

The other TNG appearances softened them, and VOYAGER completely defanged them.

Their concept is frightening in the same way the Cybermen on DOCTOR WHO are frightening. (I personally feel the Cybermen are THE most terrifying villain of that franchise.)

Cybermen suck because they are so terrifying. I can't argue with that but I would rather not have that in Trek though it is what the Borg started out as. It's such a fine line within Trek because on the one hand you do want villains that inspire a little bit of fear or anger in the audience. On the other hand, Trek is also about finding a way to coexist with many species. It's really hard to strike that with a foe like the Borg or the Doomsday Machine.

 

[1001001]

(I personally feel the Cybermen are THE most terrifying villain of that franchise.)

For me, it was the Weeping Angels. Man, they were creepy AF.

I liked the Borg fine, for the most part. Q-Who and BoBW were really fantastic.

 

[Farscape One]

I agree that STAR TREK is about finding a way to coexist, but there are people and things that do not want to coexist peacefully. Some things or people are just evil and can't be reasoned with.

And the Doomsday Machine was just a weapon, not alive.

 

[Farscape One]

For me, it was the Weeping Angels. Man, they were creepy AF.

I liked the Borg fine, for the most part. Q-Who and BoBW were really fantastic.

The Weeping Angels are a very close second to me. No matter what, you have to give Steven Moffat credit for knowing how to create creepy villains.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Long time WHO fan and I’m still a Dalek guy. All the way. Beautifully iconic design and as relevant in the world of today as they were in the 1960s.

 

[Mudd]

I agree that STAR TREK is about finding a way to coexist...

Sometimes, except all the times it's not.

 

[Vale]

Their concept is frightening in the same way the Cybermen on DOCTOR WHO are frightening. (I personally feel the Cybermen are THE most terrifying villain of that franchise.)

Low-tech Cybermen are terrifying, and honestly the lower tech the better. Body horror is key to them. The Cybermen are at their best when viewing people as little more than walking, talking collections of spare parts. The point where they become cheap plastic Iron Man knockoffs painted silver is the point where they stop being scary.

 

[fireproof78]

I agree that STAR TREK is about finding a way to coexist, but there are people and things that do not want to coexist peacefully. Some things or people are just evil and can't be reasoned with.

And the Doomsday Machine was just a weapon, not alive.

Yes, I believe it falls under the "things that are evil and do not want to coexist peacefully."

But, I would be really curious to see the Borg explored over just treated like the Cybermen. TNG and Voyager went a different way that I would prefer.

 

[Farscape One]

Agreed. The body horror aspect was their most terrifying.

Long time WHO fan and I’m still a Dalek guy. All the way. Beautifully iconic design and as relevant in the world of today as they were in the 1960s.

The Daleks are iconic, no question. Their pure hatred makes them completely unable to be reasoned with. But they don't strike terror in the way as the Cybermen do, and the Weeping Angels.

 

[Kor]

I agree with the idea that the Borg have become less and less threatening and 'scary' over the years.

Spoiler: Star Trek: Picard

What happened with them in the last season of Picard was a culmination of this.

Low-tech Cybermen are terrifying, and honestly the lower tech the better. Body horror is key to them. The Cybermen are at their best when viewing people as little more than walking, talking collections of spare parts. The point where they become cheap plastic Iron Man knockoffs painted silver is the point where they stop being scary.

I think there's still the existential horror of being forcibly converted into a Cyberman. I can't remember when that became a thing, as it seemed that early Cybermen were some species that had willingly transformed themselves.

Kor

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Agreed. The body horror aspect was their most terrifying.




The Daleks are iconic, no question. Their pure hatred makes them completely unable to be reasoned with. But they don't strike terror in the way as the Cybermen do, and the Weeping Angels.

Weeping Angels are a thing of diminishing returns for me. Every time I’ve rewatched Blink it’s impact lessens. I think the story that did really right by them was Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone but otherwise… great concept but there’s nothing to them beyond the concept.

Cybermen are scary conceptually but they’ve so, so rarely been given the stories they deserve. Too often they are reduced to just being the monster of the week and the whole matter of Cyber-Conversion is pushed into the background or ignored completely. I’d say Earthshock is a decent enough sci-fi shooter for instance, but it doesn’t utilise its villains.

The idea is scary though. I’ll give you that. What happened to Bill Potts… brrrr. Chilling.

A fate worse than death indeed.

 

[Paul755]

I’ve never had any issue with the Borg Queen aside from the fact she became grossly overused. She would have played better as either a one off in First Contact, something the Borg manifested to replace Locutus. Or in a one time appearance on Voyager. They just made her seem like another villain of the week.

Agreed. The body horror aspect was their most terrifying..

when it comes to the Borg, it makes the 2-parter where Janeway, Torres and Tuvok get assimilated even worse. Because while all but Tuvok retain their individuality they still have to go through that painful, gross, horrific assimilation and augmentation procedure. And in the end it gets shrugged off like nothing happened. Like if Kathy just had a really bad cold or something. Even on TNG Picard still showed signs of trauma.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Borg have been menacing and scary all of once since 1997. In "Regeneration(ENT)," ironically a Prequel story in a series with the lowest ratings of that era of the franchise. But somehow it worked and made drones a tangible threat to be defeated and avoided.

 

[fireproof78]

when it comes to the Borg, it makes the 2-parter where Janeway, Torres and Tuvok get assimilated even worse. Because while all but Tuvok retain their individuality they still have to go through that painful, gross, horrific assimilation and augmentation procedure. And in the end it gets shrugged off like nothing happened. Like if Kathy just had a really bad cold or something. Even on TNG Picard still showed signs of trauma.

Indeed. That it was all part of the plan makes it feely really dismissive of what the experience has been reported to be.

 

[Paul755]

Indeed. That it was all part of the plan makes it feely really dismissive of what the experience has been reported to be.

And you would have thought Seven would have been the first to step up and say “guys, you really don’t want that. It f-ing sucks, it’s one of the worst things imaginable”

 

[Vale]

I think there's still the existential horror of being forcibly converted into a Cyberman. I can't remember when that became a thing, as it seemed that early Cybermen were some species that had willingly transformed themselves.

The Doctor once said of Cybermen: "they always get started. They happen everywhere there's people. Mondas, Telos, Earth, Planet 14, Marinus. Like sewage and smartphones and Donald Trump, some things are just inevitable."

The original Cybermen were from Mondas, "Earth's twin planet", and they began to augment themselves in response to a climate catastrophe (Mondas got thrown out of the solar system – it's not quite clear how). Somewhere along the way they reached a tipping point and they began modifying their brains to remove emotions – in one story someone described this rather poetically as "they surgically removed their souls". We've also seen Cybermen originate on a parallel Earth ("Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel"), and the quote above from "World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls" suggests that other Cybermen we've seen, e.g. in "The Invasion", have an independent origin.

The modus operandi of the Cybermen varies between "we want to convert humans into Cybermen because we believe Cybermen are better than humans and don't understand why humans don't want to become Cybermen" and "we need new recruits to stop ourselves dying out". "We shall survive" was the closest thing the classic series Cybermen had to a Dalek-style catchphrase. So they're kind of Borgy, but also kind of not.

 

[Nyotarules]

Beckett Mariner is a horrible character

 

[Farscape One]

when it comes to the Borg, it makes the 2-parter where Janeway, Torres and Tuvok get assimilated even worse. Because while all but Tuvok retain their individuality they still have to go through that painful, gross, horrific assimilation and augmentation procedure. And in the end it gets shrugged off like nothing happened. Like if Kathy just had a really bad cold or something. Even on TNG Picard still showed signs of trauma.

YES! A thousand percent agreed! "UNIMATRIX ZERO" completely undid all the horror and terror of assimilation and made what Picard and Seven go through seem meaningless. In one move, this story destroys any last shred of why the Borg are dangerous and terrifying. It's precisely why that is a greatly hated two-parter in my book.

Honestly, "DARK FRONTIER" damaged the Borg so heavily that they became just weak villains. "UNIMATRIX ZERO" was the nail in the coffin for the Borg to be taken seriously.

(ENTERPRISE actually did the impossible... with "REGENERATION", they made the Borg a terrifying threat again. It would have been perfect if the franchise stopped there. But then...

Spoiler: PICARD Season 2

Season 2 of PICARD happened.