What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Captain Red Shirt

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    Of the five "TNG" episodes Mrs. Fontana was involved in, my two personal favorites are "Encounter at Farpoint" (just because I love the pilot so much), and "Too Short A Season" (because it illustrates fairly well, humanity's near-obsession with youth).
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ferengi episodes are a case by case for me. Some are ok, some are terrible. But, I won't click away from one just because Ferengi, but the wide range of strange episodes they appear in definitely makes it a mixed bag.
     
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  3. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    DC Fontana is Star Trek's mom. Almost literally.

    And BjobTremble is a favorite aunt.
     
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  4. Cr0sis21

    Cr0sis21 Captain Captain

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    Oh, I have another controversial opinion:
    I actually really enjoy Let He Who Is Without Sin.
    I think it's a lot more entertaining than something like A Man Alone
     
  5. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    I think I enjoyed ALL the Ferengi episodes to some extent.

    That's probably controversial.
     
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  6. Citiprime

    Citiprime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Possible controversial take: I'll watch the worst Ferengi episode over any of the Neelix-centered episodes that Voyager did.

    I mean no offense towards Ethan Phillips, but I think the entire conception of that character was off from the beginning. I vividly remember reading a TV Guide article before Voyager's premiere where they were predicting Neelix to be the big standout character for the show, but I remember having the same annoyed feeling that Tuvok suppresses every time Neelix appeared on-screen.

    There's zero chemistry between Neelix and Kes, I never really buy that he provides much help as their "guide" through the Delta Quadrant, and his comedic relief isn't really grounded. I think a huge difference between how Voyager used Neelix and how DS9 utilized Quark and the Ferengi is that while Quark and the Ferengi could be goofy, they could turn that around on a dime and believably use them to make serious commentary on the human condition.

    Quark has some of the most cynical but piercing commentary on humans in all of Star Trek, and I think it makes his slow conversion to liking the "root beer" more believable over the run of DS9.
     
  7. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Arguably The Best Poster Named cooleddie Moderator

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    "Prophet Motive" is ridiculous fun. It's upper-tier Ferengi episode storytelling as it threatens to upturn the entire foundations of Ferengi society and absolutely will if Quark can't find out what the Wormhole Prophets did to Zek. Watching Quark and Rom almost have nervous breakdowns watching their Grand Nagus suddenly behave so benevolently and, well, at cost is just a lot of entertainment value for this fan.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2024
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  8. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed.

    I didn't hate Neelix. I didn't like him, especially early on, but (and this is entirely down to Ethan Phillips being a great actor, not the abysmal writing) as it went on I grew more accepting.

    Still a massive misfire creatively.
     
  9. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Neelix and Kes was terrible stuff.

    Neelix being a substitute dad for Naomi Wildman - that's what the character should've been all along. It really brought out the underlying pathos of Neelix as someone who lost his family along the way in life, as well as far better contextualizing his (often overzealous and offputting) attempts at making himself helpful and useful.

    And for a corroborating controversial opinion:

    Once upon a time is a genuinely good episode. The costuming is terrible, but if the holo-characters had been given a less ridiculous look I don't think it would be anywhere near as badly remembered as it is. And if they had had the budget (never would've happened, but if) to go full cgi and make the holoprogram actually live up to how amazing a Federation kids program actually ought to be, I think most people would've highly enjoyed it.
     
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  10. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Captain Red Shirt

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    I liked the on-screen relationship between Kes and Neelix. Jennifer and Ethan usually came across as mutually kind, patient, and understanding. I know that Neelix as a character occasionally lost his cool, but I usually chalked that up to him knowing that Kes would only live for nine years. That's not long for anyone, and he wanted to keep her in his life for as long as possible.
     
  11. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Disagree with this specific statement. While I can understand the more general sentiment you express in the rest of your post, I'd rather rewatch Jetrel or Fair Trade than Profit and Lace.
     
  12. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, early TNG can get particularly hard to take because of all the self righteous sermonizing about how much more advanced they are than the poor dumb unevolved clods of the 20th Century.
    Peter David had a great observation in one of his old "But I Digress" columns in The Comics Buyer's Guide that Vietnam killed a lot of the fun of Star Trek. TOS reflected the cockiness of an America that had won World War II and was an unquestioned world leader. On TOS, Kirk would beam down to an alien planet, spend about 20 minutes there, and go, "Okay, I think I've got the gist of how things work here. Here's how we're going to change things..." And it was all okay because Kirk, and by extension the Enterprise and Starfleet, was almost always right. The Prime Directive was that annoying thing you'd discount in one way or the other, because it got in the way of the fun stuff.

    TNG reflected the cautiousness of post-Vietnam America. "We've got to be very careful, and not do the wrong thing here, because we might he wrong and really screw things up, the way we did in Vietnam." Suddenly, the Prime Directive was the thing that was always brought up to illustrate that we shouldn't interfere, and that was portrayed as the right and proper way to do things, even if it resulted in a planet's suffering and destruction.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I mean, Patterns of Force and A Private Little War both laid the ground work for that.
     
  14. Ianburns252

    Ianburns252 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There were some good ones in Ent - especially once the MACOs joined the crew - where they used the environment to far better effect (actually duck and covering, pop up shots etc rather than standing tall and proud and firing straight)
     
  15. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Captain Red Shirt

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    "DS9" eventually poked some truly amusing fun though, with their "[SIZE=4]Little Green Men[/SIZE]" episode. That story showed Quarm and Rom being accidentally sent to 1947 Roswell, where the Earthlings of that time mistake them for Martians. I still love Quark's semi-frustrated remark, about the entire situation...

    "I'd always heard primitive humans lacked intelligence, but I had no idea they were this stupid!" :guffaw:
     
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  16. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't mind Neelix at all as a character, which may be controversial. He's a magnificently flawed character - petty, thin-skinned, insecure as all hell, papering over a lifetime worth of trauma and existential dread. He has the sort of complexity that other Trek characters dream of.

    The only issue with Neelix is that, for some reason, the EPs thought he was funny, when, of course, he was not. His relationship with Kes was incredibly ill-thought-out, though. It seems like it was created for the pilot, and then the writers realized after that they fucked up tremendously by having this creepy middle-aged dude who was "dating" a two-year old, and walked it right back. Like, they had separate quarters on the ship, and Elogium seemed to strongly infer they had never boned. There was very little sign they has anything beyond a platonic relationship, other than Neelix's jealousy regarding Tom Paris.
     
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  17. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    I loved that episode!
     
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  18. Cr0sis21

    Cr0sis21 Captain Captain

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    Yes. And the couple of times Voyager focused on this, MAN, those were powerful episodes.
    But alas, they just wanted to make the guy with the silly costume and nasally voice be funny all the time.
    What a waste.
     
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  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder what would have happened if Quark and company had become stuck in the past.

    At least Odo could have survived. He could have shapeshifted into a different breed of dog and become London!



    Hey, it would have at least explained how London could do things like drive a car, pilot a balloon, etc. :lol:
     
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  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    I believe it's "Ms/Miss Fontana".
     
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