What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Yo, dude, eat biscuit and mellow out!"

    "What did he just say?"

    "Something about cooking and Mello Yello. I dunno, man."
     
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  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    biscuit in the UK = cookie in the USA, maybe a cracker too
     
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  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is true. After all the military MRE videos I've watched I'd BETTER know that....
     
  4. Citiprime

    Citiprime Captain Captain

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    One aspect about telepaths that's arguably an open question is whether human telepaths exist in the 23rd and 24th century?

    TOS' "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is canon, and it establishes that by the late 23rd century, there are human telepaths and they've even worked out an "ESP" scale to measure people's abilities. However, that's usually treated as "early installment weirdness" (e.g., at that point in TOS, the names "Starfleet" and "United Federation of Planets" hadn't even been invented for the show yet) and something that's been retconned out of existence.
    What we've seen and been told about Betazoids is limited, but I always took the fact that Betazoid weddings involve everyone being naked points to a society where transparency was the norm. Since they're telepaths who might think nothing of hearing each others thoughts, especially among friends and family, that might have led to a society where there are no secrets or shame to hide.
    When you think about it, Troi's ability to sense an emotional state is impressive, given that when she's on the bridge advising Picard about the intentions of whatever alien leader they're dealing with who might be on the viewscreen, she's able to do it from a significant distance but also she's tuning out everyone else's emotions not only on the Enterprise, but also on the alien ship/planet to find the specific person speaking. Since it's implied that someone with a full Betazoid background is even more powerful with mental powers, it does sort of put things in perspective.

    DS9 shows the paranoia Changelings cause within the Federation with the threat that anyone (or anything) could be a shapeshifter. It would stand to reason that a similar paranoia might have happened with the knowledge that there's a race of people who look very much like humans and they can read people's thoughts. Although, on the other hand, if you've reached the point of leading a massive interstellar government that seeks out new life, maybe a more enlightened human society sees it as just another fascinating aspect to add to the diversity of their society.
     
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  5. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    Yeah, a cookie is much more soothing than a biscuit.

    :techman:
     
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  6. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    UK = "jam biscuit."

    USA = "shortbread cookie with red jelly in the middle."
     
  7. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Sounds too much like a sexual euphemism to my dirty old mind. :D
     
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  8. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  9. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure the real world reason we didn't see other Betazoids in Starfleet was the same reason we never saw any other Vulcans on board the Enterprise besides Spock on TOS**: They wanted to preserve the uniqueness of their regular character. If we see a full-blooded Vulcan or a full Betazoid on the ship, suddenly Spock and Troi don't seem as cool.

    **(Outside of Mirror Spock's Vulcan bodyguards in "Mirror, Mirror," of course.)

    But very interesting speculation about whether or not full Betazoids are in Starfleet! :techman:
    Man, Roddenberry sure loved putting nudist hedonistic societies into his future universe. The Deltans, the Betazoids, the Edo from "Justice"... According to his TMP novelization, there are even alcoves in the Enterprise's rec room where crew members can slip away for some quick lovemaking instead, say, their cabins. I think the Writers' Guide for Phase II even said that large swaths of Earth are clothing optional?

    Really, it's amazing the man never produced his own Star Trek porn parody. If he'd lived until the streaming age, he would've proposed a Star Trek: Orgy series for Paramount+ and bragged about how he was finally free from the shackles of 1990s' syndicated TV.
     
  10. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Replace your words with I don't think it's unreasonable to expect laws put in place to not allow humanoids with ears or similar to just listen to another person talking without their consent.

    When you are out and about, do you switch off your senses, do you stop hearing because other people are around? Do you want a law to make it illegal to hear other folks conversations without their consent? (Apart from the present privacy laws). It would make walking on the street and travelling by public transport a headache.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2023
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  11. Rowdy Roddy McDowall

    Rowdy Roddy McDowall Commodore Rear Admiral

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    ''It's me! It's me!''

    ''What's he saying?''

    ''Sounds like KISS me, KISS me!''

    ''Smart-ass mother@#$%er!!!!''
     
  12. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, I meant exactly what I said, so no need to replace my words. People shouldn't be eavesdropping on others, anyway.

    And when I am out, I don't try to listen to other people's conversations. Why? Because it's not my business.

    Telepaths have no business just going through someone's head without permission. Privacy is something everybody is entitled to.
     
  13. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Commodore

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    Wasn't it "Looks like kiss me, kiss me" right? ;)
     
  14. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I restrict my vision so that I don't state too long at ant individual. I don't leer or oogle people as sexual objects. I definitely restrict my sense of touch by not touching, feeling, or groping people without their consent. I don't go around tasting anything in the grocery store that is not clearly a free sample.

    As Frosty said above, I don't stand next to or behind strangers as they talk each other or are on the phone. I might unintentionally overhear a snippet of conversation and this might lead to me joining the conversation, but those conversations are public and not private or intimate. If my joining the conversation is not appreciated, I do not continue to listen.

    Even my freedom of movement is restricted in public both by my own choice as well as legislation. I can't just walk into any room or any building and I definitely should not stalk people.

    These are all aspects of conduct we teach our children or learn when we are extremely young. Don't stare, it's not polite. Put that back, it's not yours or we aren't buying that. Get back here, you are not allowed in there. Don't climb on that. Don't talk to strangers.
     
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  15. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    And yet there is no formal legislation telling you not to stare when you go out, not to touch items when you are buying, not to bump into people, cos that is touching, no legislation telling you to stop listening to people on the bus, train, out and about.. You are not walking around with your eyes closed and your hands covering your ears or wearing earplugs. Or maybe you do.

    The above is completely different from suggesting that in the Trek universe telepaths should be legislated to switch of their telepathic senses and not hear other people's thought. If I was a Betazoid I might support the latter if other people are expected to switch off their senses when they are in public also. Good thing this is all fiction!
     
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  16. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It seems like this debate on telepaths is stemming mainly from different understandings about whether or not Betazoids can stop themselves from picking up others' thoughts. Some people think they can and should be able to control themselves, while others insist they cannot. I think TNG itself is rather inconsistent on this point.

    (I don't think whatever Lwaxana Troi does can be taken as an indicator of Betazoid society in general, as she seems pretty atypical in most respects. I find it easy to believe she'd just ignore whatever is generally done, because she thinks the rules don't apply to her.)
     
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  17. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    There’s a difference between “listening” and “hearing.”

    So the question is do Betazoids “hear” thoughts as they walk about their daily lives? You don’t have a lot of choice over what you hear. You have more choice over what you listen to.

    In any event, an anti-mind reading law would be unenforceable, and therefore useless. Much more likely an empath/telepath society would develop social norms and expectations around the issue.

    Assuming it’s even an issue for them at all.
     
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  18. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are rules about not touching other people without their consent, such as in the workplace. You also don't just pick up stuff at a store and leave without buying, because that's called theft.

    1001001 is right when stating there is a difference between hearing and listening, which is essentially what I was trying to say. I probably wasn't clear about that, so my apologies for the confusion. (Though I did say 'without their consent', which I thought was enough to get the point across.)

    Let me clarify... there should be laws in place to stop purposefully reading someone else's mind. Though I frankly don't like the idea that one can even accidentally hear my thoughts, because this can easily be used for bad. For example, what if a telepath happens to be picking up the thoughts of someone logging onto their bank account? They just got access to their life savings. Things like that are why there should be blockers or something to prevent mind scanning, even if it's cursory.

    As to these laws not being enforceable, STAR TREK has already used telepathic blocking before, such as a hypospray to dull the telepathic centers of their brain. So there are already ways to make that enforceable.
     
  19. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By permanently dosing people who've nothing wrong with drugs that will destroy their ability to use one of their natural senses?

    This is suddenly going down a way darker path than a telepath accidentally learning my bank account number.
     
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  20. Rowdy Roddy McDowall

    Rowdy Roddy McDowall Commodore Rear Admiral

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    That IS right. Glad you're fluent in TA:WP.

    I had another boo-boo five minutes ago. I was completely unable to log in until I realized ''Holly Gennaro-McClane'' was NOT my current username. Force of habit; end of digression.