What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If a planet has billions of empathic and telepathic beings your society would be more considerate of others?

Except for Suder of course, most Betazoids we've seen have been decent people. I would tend to think that while they read each others' minds all the time, they would consider it rude to do so with visitors to their world. Offworlders would have nothing to worry about.

 

[at Quark's]

^Wondering now how intrigue and power struggles would work on such worlds?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The Devore Imperium would doubtless approve... Data says in TNG: "Night Terrors" that "There is no technology to block telepathic transmissions".

Apparently, there is technology to enable Telepathy.

As of 2368, the Federation had no technology capable of blocking telepathic transmissions. (TNG: "Violations") Still, telepathic suppressors were used by other species, and according to Quark, they were typically bulky. (DS9: "The Jem'Hadar")

So I'm sure somebody can figure out a way to shield from telepathic signals it if they wanted to.

 

[Citiprime]

The Earth Alliance government’s response to the appearance of human telepaths in Babylon 5 would sadly probably be the most likely to happen if psychic powers ever became a reality.

• All humans displaying telepathic abilities are required to register with the government and become members of the Psy Corps, effectively segregating out telepaths from the population and putting a collar of control on their abilities. However, this also creates a monstrous organization full of jackbooted people in black uniforms who have been taught little to no connection with the rest of humanity, making it far easier to build resentment and foster feelings of superiority.
• Those who refuse to register with the government have 3 options: 1) agree to be jailed for the rest of their lives, 2) regular drug suppressants that have the side effects of depression and increased chance of suicide, or 3) go on the run.

Within Star Trek, the nature of the Federation makes it harder to see laws targeting the abilities of certain species, since that would seem kinda discriminatory and go against the entire idea of building a diverse interstellar government. If I was a Betazoid, why would I join a Federation that would lay down rules about my abilities because they don’t trust me as who I am?

On the other hand, although it’s not canon, I seem to remember something, either in the novelization or some other non-canon material, about Lt. Ilia from The Motion Picture having to take drugs/vaccine in order to deactivate the mind bending pheromones she has as a Deltan before serving in Starfleet. And I would guess something like that might be true for Tendi and the other Orion women that serve in Starfleet too.

 

[cooleddie74]

The novelization of TMP also refers to advanced neural invasion technology having been a thing in Earth's pre-warp past. The book references "The Mind Control Revolts of 2048."

 

[Macintosh]

The Earth Alliance government’s response to the appearance of human telepaths in Babylon 5 would sadly probably be the most likely to happen if psychic powers ever became a reality.

Interestingly the Centauri and Minbari don't seem to have an equivalent of the Psi Corps, but they've likely been dealing with telepaths for longer. The novels indicate that one of the reasons the Psi Corps came about, with all the resulting segregation and problems that entails, is because Earth governments panicked when certifiable telepaths suddenly appeared as if from nowhere in the human population during the 22nd century, and acted with excessive harshness to prevent mass hysteria.

On the other hand, although it’s not canon, I seem to remember something, either in the novelization or some other non-canon material, about Lt. Ilia from The Motion Picture having to take drugs/vaccine in order to deactivate the mind bending pheromones she has as a Deltan before serving in Starfleet. And I would guess something like that might be true for Tendi and the other Orion women that serve in Starfleet too.

Hence Ilia's first words being about her "oath of celibacy", which otherwise just seems very odd indeed without context.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

On the other hand, although it’s not canon, I seem to remember something, either in the novelization or some other non-canon material, about Lt. Ilia from The Motion Picture having to take drugs/vaccine in order to deactivate the mind bending pheromones she has as a Deltan before serving in Starfleet. And I would guess something like that might be true for Tendi and the other Orion women that serve in Starfleet too.

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-orion-lower-decks-tendi-updates/

As their search for D'Erika continues, Tendi takes Mariner and T'Lyn to an Orion pheromone dungeon where "mone heads" are held in thrall to Orion females. Mariner takes issue with this stating that Tendi once told her that the Orion pheromones were a lie perpetuated by Starfleet to protect the reputation of Captain Jonathan Archer (Scott Bakula). In the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Bound", Archer almost handed over the Enterprise NX-01 to three Orion showgirls thanks to the power of their pheromones. However, Tendi makes it clear that not every Orion female is capable of producing these pheromones, something that's confirmed by the dungeon's Madame G. Tendi also reveals that there's a cure for the influence of the pheromones, handily stored in her hypospray.

 

[drt]

she's supposed to be powerful by Betazoid standards but simultaneously seems to be blissfully unaware of how much of a pain in the ass she is and how much the targets of her misplaced affections regard her as effectively an interstellar Pepé Le Pew

I think Lwaxana perfectly understood what others were feeling and half just didn't care.

Yeah, I always had the sense that Lwaxana simply enjoyed messing with people as it entertained her.

One aspect about telepaths that's arguably an open question is whether human telepaths exist in the 23rd and 24th century?

TOS' "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is canon, and it establishes that by the late 23rd century, there are human telepaths and they've even worked out an "ESP" scale to measure people's abilities. However, that's usually treated as "early installment weirdness" (e.g., at that point in TOS, the names "Starfleet" and "United Federation of Planets" hadn't even been invented for the show yet) and something that's been retconned out of existence.

It wasn't entirely early installment, Miranda Jones in the third season was also a telepath -- but you're correct that the idea of human telepaths was largely dropped by the time of TNG, probably so that the Betazoids could have a semi-unique alien characteristic.

According to his TMP novelization, there are even alcoves in the Enterprise's rec room where crew members can slip away for some quick lovemaking instead, say, their cabins.

The private alcoves were in the forward part of the engineering hull, I guess if one was so overcome by passion for a coworker you could slip off for a nooner without having to go all the way back to your cabin.

 

[Farscape One]

The Earth Alliance government’s response to the appearance of human telepaths in Babylon 5 would sadly probably be the most likely to happen if psychic powers ever became a reality.

• All humans displaying telepathic abilities are required to register with the government and become members of the Psy Corps, effectively segregating out telepaths from the population and putting a collar of control on their abilities. However, this also creates a monstrous organization full of jackbooted people in black uniforms who have been taught little to no connection with the rest of humanity, making it far easier to build resentment and foster feelings of superiority.
• Those who refuse to register with the government have 3 options: 1) agree to be jailed for the rest of their lives, 2) regular drug suppressants that have the side effects of depression and increased chance of suicide, or 3) go on the run.

Within Star Trek, the nature of the Federation makes it harder to see laws targeting the abilities of certain species, since that would seem kinda discriminatory and go against the entire idea of building a diverse interstellar government. If I was a Betazoid, why would I join a Federation that would lay down rules about my abilities because they don’t trust me as who I am?

On the other hand, although it’s not canon, I seem to remember something, either in the novelization or some other non-canon material, about Lt. Ilia from The Motion Picture having to take drugs/vaccine in order to deactivate the mind bending pheromones she has as a Deltan before serving in Starfleet. And I would guess something like that might be true for Tendi and the other Orion women that serve in Starfleet too.

Deltans took an oath of celibacy, as Ilia stated in THE MOTION PICTURE.

 

[Arpy]

I imagine they have bank account numbers and passwords on Betazed too...I wonder how they're able to deal with the privacy issue there.

I'd be absolutely against chemical suppressants though. Might as well ask us to wear blackout sunglasses, mittens, and nose and earplugs when meeting new aliens too. If the Brataxians demand we only text one another between 2:53 and 2:57 AM or it's war, well: cry havoc. Don't be at the damned cafe.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I imagine they have bank account numbers and passwords on Betazed too...I wonder how they're able to deal with the privacy issue there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bank Account #'s are tied together with Multi-Factor Biometric Identities + Passwords + Keycards.

 

[Arpy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bank Account #'s are tied together with Multi-Factor Biometric Identities + Passwords + Keycards.

What did they do before electricity—did the bank manager to a full mindmeld every time? Were they also the town psychiatrist? Or bartender? …is that the same question?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

What did they do before electricity—did the bank manager to a full mindmeld every time? Were they also the town psychiatrist? Or bartender? …is that the same question?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what is needed to validate identity back then pre technology.

 

[Tallguy]

On the other hand, although it’s not canon, I seem to remember something, either in the novelization or some other non-canon material, about Lt. Ilia from The Motion Picture having to take drugs/vaccine in order to deactivate the mind bending pheromones she has as a Deltan before serving in Starfleet.

She does NOT dampen her pheromones as Gene explicitly demonstrated in the novel of TMP. It's even noted that the Ilia probe has them as well.

The Oath of Celibacy is just that. An oath. A promise. A rule.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The private alcoves were in the forward part of the engineering hull, I guess if one was so overcome by passion for a coworker you could slip off for a nooner without having to go all the way back to your cabin.

I suddenly understand why Scotty spends so much time on the bridge.

 

[Tuskin38]

I thought Betazoids could control if they read minds or not.

 

[Orphalesion]

Betazoids always seemed like sort of telepathic/empathic filter feeders to me. Troi sure seems to be constantly on and pick up stuff from kilometres away in some episodes (like in The Bonding)
And then the complained that she was "too hard" to writer for Well of course your character is hard to write for if her power-set is so ill defined that it makes her at the same time way too powerful and utterly useless.
I get that telepathy that would have needed more effort might have been similar to Spock's but...what would have been wrong with defining that telepathy just works that way in the ST universe? it's not like every species needs their own way of, say, breathing.

 

[Shawnster]

Let's consider Troi for a moment as an example of a Betazoid's telepathic range. Someone noted this above about a page or 2 back, but it's worth exploring.

The FX scenes really distort scale. Whenever Troi reads the emotions of a ship's captain whom Picard is sparring with on screen, that ship captain is tens of thousands of Km away. They really aren't within a few feet of each other.

Earth's diameter is 12.75 thousand km. Circumference is 40 thousand km. A typical class M planet.

So, if Troi can read the emotions of a specific individual that's tens of thousands of Km away, then she should be able to read everyone on the Enterprise from wherever she is on the ship simply by focusing or concentrating. Likewise, the same holds true if she's on a planet - anyone within range is open to being read.

Let's assume this is typical for a full Betazoid. At any given time there are anywhere from a few hundred to a few billion people within telepathic range. If, as Nyotarules keeps emphasizing, non-telepaths just broadcast their thoughts the way people have conversations in public, then that's upwards of billions of "voices" telepathically bombarding the senses of a Betazoid (or any telepath) all the time without letup.

With all that noise, maybe it takes extreme focus to pick out 1 specific individual. Does a telepath really need to work at not eavesdropping on the billions of stray thoughts bombing their senses or does it all become telepathic white noise?

That is, if there is a distance range limit. Perhaps it's line of sight and the target must be seen either in person or on screen in order to be read by a telepath. Can't see them? Can't focus on them.

Then again, Spock made a telepathic connection through a wall to an unseen target on the other side, Tam Elbrun made contact with Gomtuu across light years (didn't he?), Wyatt Miller did the same when he made telepathic contact across light years through Dreams. Spock even sensed the loss of the Intrepid from light years away.

So, who knows?

 

[Farscape One]

Let's consider Troi for a moment as an example of a Betazoid's telepathic range. Someone noted this above about a page or 2 back, but it's worth exploring.

The FX scenes really distort scale. Whenever Troi reads the emotions of a ship's captain whom Picard is sparring with on screen, that ship captain is tens of thousands of Km away. They really aren't within a few feet of each other.

Earth's diameter is 12.75 thousand km. Circumference is 40 thousand km. A typical class M planet.

So, if Troi can read the emotions of a specific individual that's tens of thousands of Km away, then she should be able to read everyone on the Enterprise from wherever she is on the ship simply by focusing or concentrating. Likewise, the same holds true if she's on a planet - anyone within range is open to being read.

Let's assume this is typical for a full Betazoid. At any given time there are anywhere from a few hundred to a few billion people within telepathic range. If, as Nyotarules keeps emphasizing, non-telepaths just broadcast their thoughts the way people have conversations in public, then that's upwards of billions of "voices" telepathically bombarding the senses of a Betazoid (or any telepath) all the time without letup.

With all that noise, maybe it takes extreme focus to pick out 1 specific individual. Does a telepath really need to work at not eavesdropping on the billions of stray thoughts bombing their senses or does it all become telepathic white noise?

That is, if there is a distance range limit. Perhaps it's line of sight and the target must be seen either in person or on screen in order to be read by a telepath. Can't see them? Can't focus on them.

Then again, Spock made a telepathic connection through a wall to an unseen target on the other side, Tam Elbrun made contact with Gomtuu across light years (didn't he?), Wyatt Miller did the same when he made telepathic contact across light years through Dreams. Spock even sensed the loss of the Intrepid from light years away.

So, who knows?

Spock in "A TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON"... maybe the wall wasn't that thick. We did see Spock sort of search from the door to where the guard was standing, so maybe it was a matter of focusing on a stray thought. Like a searchlight looking over the water, and once you see what you are looking for, you keep the light there while you move your boat closer to the object.

Tam Elbrun didn't initiate contact with Gomtuu. Gomtuu was the one who was able to do that. Troi herself said it was impossible for Tam, even one with his abilities.

Wyatt was a human, and that was an odd scenario. Seemed more mystical than anything. It was just him and her dreaming of each other across the light years.

The main problem with using Troi as an example is there was no consistency about her empapthic abilities during the show's run.

 

[Orphalesion]

They just didn't think the Betazoids through when they created Troi and even less when they continued to use her empathic powers like that (from the orbit of planets). A culture and species that has this kind of telepathy as their defining feature would be a *lot* more alien than just having Lwaxana talk about how everybody wants to see her naked all the time (I like Lwaxana, but she wasn't always used the best and created a picture of Betazed that was both painfully mundane and ridiculous) In fact if we really run with the idea it probably creates a situation where having a regular cast member from that culture would be very difficult.
They could have saved it by making telepathy something that requires effort, and maybe making it a thing that only a select number of Betazoids can really develop, akin to Trill symbiosis.