What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    La Belle Province
    True enough. My six year old self in 1973 saw it a bit differently, though (this episode is one of my favourites, not least for its sentimental value as the very first episode of Trek I ever watched thanks to the Trekkie sitter my parents got one Saturday night back then).
     
    Commander Troi, Serveaux and Denise like this.
  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I consider the Original Effects option on the TOS Blu-Rays to be the true "TOS Remastered" because it's the original 1960s version but upscaled. Similar to what TNG Remastered is.
     
  3. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2020
    I always watch it with the original FX, I’m so glad they provided that option. That’s what I grew up with and it adds to the show’s charm. The CGI FX are okay but pull me out of it a bit, particularly when they try to be a little clever or showy.
     
    Lord Garth likes this.
  4. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    I would very much like to watch TOS without the remasters and I viscerally hate that I can't. Everytime I see a picture of the Okudas I retch. Its Pavlovian, I associated their faces with TOS-R..

    I don't have the blurays and will not buy them because 1) it's 2023 not the time to buy physical media 2) there are several releases of everything with different descriptions and I won't waste the time to sift through all of them to find the correct one. 3) even if I had the disks I don't have a desktop computer with a CD/DVD drive anymore with which to rip the files and save them to a convenient location 4)
    I'm aware illegal downloads exist but they have the same problem of finding the right ones
     
  5. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    All the BluRays sets have both versions of the special effects. But it sounds like you don't want physical media of any sort, which does restrict your options somewhat (even buying the original release DVDs). Am I correct in thinking your just want video files?
     
  6. Fantasy Lover

    Fantasy Lover Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2023
    The final frontier is not that bad, fight me
     
  7. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    DVDs are okay (I can rip those)
    downloads/streaming would be better
    ideally a tube tv and an UHF transmission
     
  8. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    Especially when compared to NEMESIS, '09, and INTO DARKNESS. The character work and beats in THE FINAL FRONTIER are some of the best of the TOS movies.
     
  9. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    TFF isn't...objectively great. But it has heart and Shatner understands how those characters interacted and behaved and directed the film in that manner so the interpersonal moments (mostly) work and in a few cases brilliantly. The effects are 1980s TV-level cheesy and largely don't work and the ShaKaRee entity isn't an effective villain because in part the effects fail the execution and the editing didn't help, neither. Laurence Luckinbill's Sybok, though, is a brillant performance and the best thing about the entire film other than one or two individual scenes.

    I'll rewatch TFF in a heartbeat over NEM, STID or even INS, the last of which is in many respects a superior film.
     
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I buy physical media for three reasons. It doesn't matter if it's 2023 or the 23rd Century.

    1. Actor/Director/Etc Commentaries. They're very insightful most of the time.

    2. I only trust Streaming Services up to a certain point. They can take a show or movie off that I like any time. If I have the physical media, then what they do doesn't affect what I have.

    3. If I decide to cancel a Streaming Service for whatever reason, I potentially lose access to a series or film I can watch on it, if I don't have the physical media.

    We're too dependent on computers. You strike me as an old-schooler. You should be agreeing with me.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    It's a solid film in some regards, and complete baffling in others. I think that's part of the charm of it, but there are some scenes that make no sense, including a lot of the comedy. When it is being dramatic, it works very well. But, when it elevates Captain Kirk at the expense of others it flounders.

    I'd watch it before all the TNG movies, and TMP, and usually TWOK as a fun adventure. ST 09 and Beyond might surpass it in that way, but still an entertaining movie.
     
  12. Rowdy Roddy McDowall

    Rowdy Roddy McDowall Commodore Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Location:
    Cornelius drive
    The opening title wiggled en route to the center of the screen. Were they Monty Python, I could understand that.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Though the opening titles by Jerry Goldsmith have that interesting sound effect as the title appears that sounds like a jet engine revving up. The soundtrack of that film is fire.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  14. Citiprime

    Citiprime Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2021
    I think one thing that's really distracting about it is how BAAAADDDDDD the visual effects are. It is really noticeable that ILM is NOT in charge with this movie.

    Beyond that, I think the premise is not a bad one. In fact, it really connects to TOS and its themes. But I think it's undermined by a few things.

    1. The process by which people are converted seems too easy. I know Shatner supposedly based Sybok on televangelists and religious conversion, but I just feel like Kirk's senior staff, people who have shown they would follow Kirk into hell, wouldn't turn on him and Starfleet as easily as they do in the movie.

    2. This is a massive event involving three major powers and yet it feels so small. It's like Starfleet is just the Enterprise, the Klingon Empire is just one rogue Bird-of-Prey, and the Romulans don't give a damn to even care.

    3. The humor doesn't work. Shatner does well with some of the interactions (like the "row-row-your-boat" scene) but a lot of the "funny" moments just come off as stupid. All of the Enterprise falling apart jokes don't really work. And neither does Scotty bumping his head on pipes and Spock's rocket boots.

    With all that being said, I do think it has one of the best scenes of any of the movies. The scenes where Sybok tries to convert McCoy, Spock, and Kirk are really good. I've always thought of it as a really significant aspect of understanding Kirk as a character that he REFUSES to release his pain, and argues that it defines who he is. In the end, the audience is left in the dark as to even what Kirk's pain is, but we do know that he values it.

    And I've always been more in the Kirk camp of thinking that "closure" on pain is an illusion. People close on houses, not their emotions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
  15. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    TOS Space seed - would like to watch this from a 2023 production reboot, a professional officer running off to be with an ancient dictator who mistreats her would have to be retconned
     
  16. The Knappos

    The Knappos Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2021
    Location:
    South coast, UK
    Can’t. I’ll happily second for you though
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I think this is came about due to well meaning individuals, even in my own industry, and philosophers, who wanted people to "forgive and forget" as a means of moving on. And, that's really not accurate, nor necessarily a healthy way to resolve pain. Much of our experiences and growth as individuals, and even the strengths that we posses, are exposed and built up by the encountering of painful circumstances that would not otherwise prompt us to rise to the occasion. To forget that is to forget some of the lessons that come with it. Or, avoid fear related items altogether, and so avoid much of life, rather that strength can come in facing and overcoming that fear.

    I think Kirk's "I need my pain" is as much his integration of those hurts in to his experience as well as learning from those lessons. In the same way he needs both sides of himself ("The Enemy Within) he needs that pain; not as a closure; but as a reminder of his own potential in the face adversity.
     
  18. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    Interesting, it depends on ones definition of 'closure', to close does not meant to forget, for me its a form of acceptance of the situation, its like a wound that is healed over, that has stopped bleeding and hurting, the scar is there but it does not hold one body back.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  19. Annie McCoy

    Annie McCoy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2023
    Location:
    UK but really my rampant thoughts
    It’s literally such a comfort film. Do I care about the plot? No. Do I adore every interaction between the old men? Yes. But then again that’s my grading systems for most films and shows (super high level film analysis right there) :hugegrin:
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I tend to agree, but more and more I see closure, especially in grief groups and such, meaning, "Forget about it."

    Which always troubled me.
     
    Commander Troi and Richard S. Ta like this.