What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    Well, Suder was a sociopath, and he did not have traditional Betazoid abilities (he said “I can’t even sense my own emotions” or something to that effect).

    I never put those two together as one causing the other.
     
  2. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Maybe for a Betazoid humanoid it does, but not sure if that was definitely stated in VOY or implied. If a planet has billions of empathic and telepathic beings your society would be more considerate of others, if you don't have those abilities, then how do you learn?
     
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  3. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Perhaps we need a rule about "badgering the witness." :lol:
    Sorry, drives me crazy when an offhand comment turns into a trial.
    Moving on.
     
  4. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think it's unreasonable to expect laws put in place to not allow telepaths to just read another person's thoughts without their consent.

    Having the assumption that a telepath is not simply rummaging through your mind without your knowledge is frankly ludicrous. That implies a level of trust that has to be earned.

    Put it another way: we make the assumption that Betazoids and other telepathic species learn by default to not read other people because of their society. What if it's really the other way around? That because they can all read minds, there is no need for respecting privacy so they read the minds of other races without realizing it's wrong. (I don't think it's a coincidence we don't see full Betazoids in Starfleet... it's probably such a jarring thing for them to reign in their telepathic skills that it's more of a burden to live outside their homeworld. While we do see Betazoids in support roles... Lwaxana as an ambassador and the guy in "Night Terrors", for example... they aren't necessarily off world all the time.) Given how Betazoid weddings have everyone naked, I don't think it's a stretch to think privacy is a priority or even exists there.

    One other thing that should be pointed out... how is anyone certain a telepath is not scanning people without their consent? Honestly, something as invasive as that should have some kind of blocker or 'off switch', for lack of a better word.
     
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  5. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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  6. Macintosh

    Macintosh Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Lwaxana surely demonstrates the limitations of Betazoid telepathy – she's supposed to be powerful by Betazoid standards but simultaneously seems to be blissfully unaware of how much of a pain in the ass she is and how much the targets of her misplaced affections regard her as effectively an interstellar Pepé Le Pew.
     
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  7. Macintosh

    Macintosh Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But as a member of a species with visual organs, I can just close my eyes...
     
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  8. Arpy

    Arpy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why should you? So you can see another person, so what? Betazoids are used to dealing with the messy chaos and neuroses of each other and other species, so what? Seems to me like telepathy-envy on the part of everyone else.

    I think Lwaxana perfectly understood what others were feeling and half just didn't care. Maybe Betazoids know more than anyone the importance of just being yourself. Plus, we're all constantly lying to ourselves anyway; maybe she was on to more than others knew.
     
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  9. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Telepaths in other franchises have said not listening is the hard part.
     
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  10. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And yet, humans consider eavesdropping to be at least ethically wrong (depending on the circumstances). The use of electronic aids to secretly enhance our auditory senses in order to spy is restricted and limited by legislation.

    At the least listening to some conversations without consent is an ethical faux pas and at the most illegal.

    Being a peeping Tom is illegal. Plus, as with hearing, there are times where observing someone is ethically wrong and other times when using our sight is illegal

    While privacy is not an inherently protected right in the US Constitution, there does seem to be a pretty universal acceptance that we have the right to privacy. That includes not being watched, touched, or listened to without our consent. I imagine that fundamental sense of privacy would extend to our thoughts and emotions.
     
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  11. Arpy

    Arpy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Peeping Tom’s are those who surreptitiously spy on others, not those who simply have their eyes open.

    I guess it all depends how the telepathy works. If the rest of us are broadcasting our thoughts, what’s a Betazoid to do—take medical suppressants to make the rest of us feel better? If we don’t want to be seen naked, we wear clothes. If we don’t want our thoughts read, maybe that too requires effort on our part as well as discretion on theirs.

    That is if they believe in discretion. They’re not human. Maybe on their world telepathy requires effort or maybe it’s inescapable. Maybe discretion is possible or maybe, in practice, it’s unrealistic, and they’ve just learned to accept each other, undesirable thoughts and all.
     
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  12. Spectre Of The Fun

    Spectre Of The Fun Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That phrase needs to catch on around here as shorthand for cooling off when someone gets a little too heated in or out of The Neutral Zone.

    Been a few times when I should have "eaten biscuit."
     
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  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Yo, dude, eat biscuit and mellow out!"

    "What did he just say?"

    "Something about cooking and Mello Yello. I dunno, man."
     
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  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    biscuit in the UK = cookie in the USA, maybe a cracker too
     
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  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is true. After all the military MRE videos I've watched I'd BETTER know that....
     
  16. Citiprime

    Citiprime Captain Captain

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    One aspect about telepaths that's arguably an open question is whether human telepaths exist in the 23rd and 24th century?

    TOS' "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is canon, and it establishes that by the late 23rd century, there are human telepaths and they've even worked out an "ESP" scale to measure people's abilities. However, that's usually treated as "early installment weirdness" (e.g., at that point in TOS, the names "Starfleet" and "United Federation of Planets" hadn't even been invented for the show yet) and something that's been retconned out of existence.
    What we've seen and been told about Betazoids is limited, but I always took the fact that Betazoid weddings involve everyone being naked points to a society where transparency was the norm. Since they're telepaths who might think nothing of hearing each others thoughts, especially among friends and family, that might have led to a society where there are no secrets or shame to hide.
    When you think about it, Troi's ability to sense an emotional state is impressive, given that when she's on the bridge advising Picard about the intentions of whatever alien leader they're dealing with who might be on the viewscreen, she's able to do it from a significant distance but also she's tuning out everyone else's emotions not only on the Enterprise, but also on the alien ship/planet to find the specific person speaking. Since it's implied that someone with a full Betazoid background is even more powerful with mental powers, it does sort of put things in perspective.

    DS9 shows the paranoia Changelings cause within the Federation with the threat that anyone (or anything) could be a shapeshifter. It would stand to reason that a similar paranoia might have happened with the knowledge that there's a race of people who look very much like humans and they can read people's thoughts. Although, on the other hand, if you've reached the point of leading a massive interstellar government that seeks out new life, maybe a more enlightened human society sees it as just another fascinating aspect to add to the diversity of their society.
     
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  17. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    Yeah, a cookie is much more soothing than a biscuit.

    :techman:
     
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  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    UK = "jam biscuit."

    USA = "shortbread cookie with red jelly in the middle."
     
  19. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Sounds too much like a sexual euphemism to my dirty old mind. :D
     
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  20. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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