What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf in the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    It's a Christ based religion. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. God, prophets, angels and those sorts of thing.
     
  2. Imaus

    Imaus Captain Captain

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    Their cosmology is honestly sort of neat.

    Mormon to a T? Go to the highest afterlife.

    Mormon but waiver? Not Mormon but good? Second afterlife.

    Shitty in life? Lowest afterlife, but it's still a rad place.

    Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers. We're all spirit brothers. We're all here to be tested.

    And eventually you too basically can become a god? It gets iffy at that point.

    But that sort of dnd level cosmology Could be nice, especially against whatever Great Awakening was going on at the time with brimstone and eternal damnation.

    Sure there's the outer darkness where Satan is, and apparently I guess all Atheists who deny the Holy Spirit or whatever? But it's cold and just devoid of love and light than an eternal sadist party.
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I find cosmology in Judaism and Christianity incredibly fascinating. Mormonism took some interesting ideas too from that material.
     
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  4. oldtrekkie

    oldtrekkie Captain Red Shirt

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    If the Christians are right shouldn't there be a Christ avatar on each planet that has developed a sapient lifeform?
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I imagine so, yes. But, that's my own personal viewpoint after studying.
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there's certainly one on 892-IV. Or, at least, it seems that there was one, in the more general sense of "an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person" [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar].
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
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  7. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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    I fear we’re straying pretty far from Star Trek at this point…

    :lol:
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Star what now? ;)


    Well, here's my most recent opinion-sex and sexuality are rarely additive in Trek and are better off being avoided. Use it spicy seasoning.
     
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  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, in case it was clear, I was referring to the TOS episode "Bread and Circuses."

     
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  10. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    But I find Christians rarely if ever speak about other worlds or what might be there.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's funny. That was much of my high school and college discussions with my Christian friends, teachers and mentors.
     
  12. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Omega IV also had a Bible (an actual prop opened up to the Old Testament), although we can't really judge if it had a Jesus. The immense similarities implies that it may have (and therefore, also Miri's world and Beta III and other parallel Earths). Messianic figures, and heroic martyrs exist in other cultures (Vulcans' Surak, Klingons' Kahless, Bajorans' Ben Sisko), so there's a parallel here in cultural development it seems. Of course, there are also "Jesus figures" before and after Jesus in Earth cultures too, if we're using such loose definitions.

    Star Trek features loads of alien interference in primitive cultures, and it's not out of the question that Jesus might be one of these, similar to Lucifer (Lucien) and all the Greek Gods, Native American sky spirits, and Kukulkan and who knows who else.
     
  13. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    Well if God's power is truly unlimited and can be everywhere at once that Jesus aspect of God could have appeared on many worlds at the same time.

    In terms of Star Trek the book Q Squared implied that Q has spoken to God in one scene.
     
  14. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, one of Jesus's most famous miracles was raising Lazarus from the dead. But, according to Star Trek, Lazarus was just some guy who wasn't able to die in the first place (Flint). Therefore, Jesus is just some charlatan, and Flint probably helped disseminate the guy's legend just like he did his own when he ruled Israel 1000 years prior and wrote some of the Old Testament (as Solomon).
     
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  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think that logically follows from Flint being immortal. The main thing Jesus did was to order people to move the stone behind which Lazarus had been buried for four days, certain that Lazarus would in fact be alive and not dead, contrary to what everyone else believed. But I don't want to get mired in an off-topic theological debate, so this is all I'll say about it. Suffice it to say that I see no contradiction between Star Trek canon and Biblical canon.

    But, good catch to mention Flint in this context.
     
  16. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good point as well. I misremembered the details around Lazarus's resurrection, and was being a little tongue-in-cheek with my blasphemy.

    It could be that Flint is bored in his immortality (after living as great rulers Solomon and Alexander, he is transitioning into royal advisers like Merlin and eventually artists like da Vinci and Brahms), and he is influencing this random Rabbi to start a new religion... or it could be that Jesus is legitimately freeing one of his children, an immortal one, from being trapped in this tomb.

    In the original script (and the movie that was adopted from Bixby's work), Flint *is* Jesus (or claims to be), and the events of the New Testament are misinterpretations of a time when he tried non-violence and probably medical advances to heal people (and some of the major stuff must be exaggeration or him telling lies). But, yeah, Star Trek can (and attempted to, at least) interpret the events so that the New Testament occurs predominantly as it did.

    The Old Testament must be quite different, with a Solomon who must've wandered in off the street, and then fake his death a few decades later. But then, historically, there's big questions of who Solomon even is, so having him be some adopted son (with a fake bastard story) isn't too outlandish.
     
  17. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Adult of Dubious Maturity Premium Member

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    Fascinating discussion. I always saw TOS as completely Secular Humanist, as I understand Gene was.
     
  18. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commodore Commodore

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    Gene might have been Secular Humanist, his staff might not have been.

    I wonder, what happened o Flint after Dr. McCoy diagnosed him.

    Flint had the option to go back to Earth, right?

    I know the last that we saw of him was in that episode in TOS.
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He was, but also influenced by a variety of spiritual traditions. As well as the fact that he had several writers who would bring in their own ideas. Which is more interesting to me.
     
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  20. Laughing Dragon

    Laughing Dragon Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    As a DS9 fan and a TNG fan I think TNG wasn't as all perfect as that and their strictly fans would say. I think their characters had their quirks, and they would even argue. That's what I stand by.
     
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