What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. BoTWoT

    BoTWoT Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I see your City On The Edge Of Forever, and raise you an Amok Time. City is at least middle of the pack good, just not the top 10 episodes of all time many make it out to be. Amok Time though...I just can't even with this one, and the rumors of Spocks "wife" coming back in SNW makes me shake my head with a ton of questions.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Amok Time is definitely better than City on the Edge of Forever.

    But, I'm also annoyed at the rumor of T'Pring making an appearance.
     
  3. BoTWoT

    BoTWoT Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    In my ranking series I'm planning on doing whole episodes just tackling each one of these, in an alternate format, so I can look the viewers in the eyes when I say neither is all that great. Amok coming soon! Other than lore, that doesn't make any real sense, it has nothing holding it up. City has some great moments, and a whole lot of garbage, but I'd say it's worlds better than Amok. But, to each their own!
     
  4. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think that ending would have presented the entire Star Trek universe as a dream, not just DS9.

    Kor
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I mean, it is extremely informative of the character of Spock specifically, and that he isn't an emotionless robot as so commonly portrayed or insisted upon, even by early Spock himself. That he has emotions, but that isn't just unique to him by being half-human, but that Vulcans themselves have intense emotions. It sets up a number of world aspects to an alien race that we had largely limited knowledge of.

    City is a very character driven piece, which I am normally all for, but it lacks the punch because it feels like an artificial conflict of "she must die." Kind of similar to Avengers: Endgame, where Dr. Strange is like "well, there is really only version where things go happily so that's the one we do!" I feel for Kirk but that's about it. The rest falls a little short.
     
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  6. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think COTEOF is actually quite brilliant, but because time travel and time paradox stories are much more common and even cliché nowadays, it has lost some of it's relative brilliance. For it's time, it was a 5-star sci-fi story.

    I agree that Amok Time isn't anything overly special. It's good because it dives into Spock as a character and explores Vulcans as a culture for the first time...but it's not a "great" episode. I think it's "good"...but not a classic.
     
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  7. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I always wondered if it would have been possible for them to whisk Edith away with them to their future world.

    Kor
     
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  8. Coops

    Coops Commander Red Shirt

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    An episode which deserves its legendary status would be, for me, Balance Of Terror. No matter how many times I watch it I feel tense all the way through it. I am such a loser :lol::lol:
     
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  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same here. Certainly whale lady did.
    It's a good episode.
     
  10. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    As long as she wasn't in her own timeline anymore. And as long as her death wasn't a critical event.

    It's actually pretty rather convenient that Gillian Taylor presumably never married or had kids in the original timeline... taking her out of it didn't prevent, say, McCoy from ever being born.
     
  11. oldtrekkie

    oldtrekkie Captain Red Shirt

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    Why not? They did it with Gillian with no measurable effects.
     
  12. oldtrekkie

    oldtrekkie Captain Red Shirt

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    Precisely! Removing Gillian was much more likely to have bad long-term effects than Edith given that the latter was going to die anyway. Gillian on the other hand could have lived in the 20th-21st centuries for five decades and affect a great deal of things.
     
  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I suppose Spock's tricorder memory bank research showed that she had to remain in the 1930s and die to prevent the contamination or another form of it. Just yanking her out of 1930 and bringing her to the 23rd century might have done even more harm than Dr. McCoy saving her life in the traffic accident.
     
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  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of my absolute favorites of TOS.
     
  15. oldtrekkie

    oldtrekkie Captain Red Shirt

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    I honestly don't see how.

    When Gillian forced her way to the ship, nobody had even the slightest doubt about the possible implications of removing someone like her from her time, and yet she was much more likely to have an impact than Edith who was going to die in a matter of minutes and not having any more effect whatsoever.
     
  16. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's the timestream. Who knows.
     
  17. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    BoT is a bit dull. I used to fall asleep as a kid. And "the enemy commanders who respect each other" trope, I guess I've seen too much.

    I really esteem City and Amok, for they are about matters of the heart and friendship more than many eps, and they carry it off well, I think. Emoting strongly seems rare in Trek until DSC, which veered too far imho. But real love, then sacrifice and real pain as Kirk holds back McCoy: pretty real. And all the character interaction and real sadness in Spock, then a face full of joy! Usually when happy they just sort of chuckle. And at deaths they are resigned. So I like the realness of these two eps.

    The only I think I would truly rank higher would be Doomsday or Devil in the Dark.

    And remember kids: In matters of taste there can be no disputing.
     
  18. BoTWoT

    BoTWoT Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I prefer to think of the movies as their own canon. There's just too many inconsistencies with the rest of Trek lore across ALL the movies. It's all drama and action...for the sake of drama and action and not because it furthers any canon or storyline.
     
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  19. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    That's very true. If I had to choose between the timeline risk of removing a woman who would be dead in hours, or removing one who might last a few decades... well, there's no question who to choose.

    Of course, the butterfly effect could make either one extremely risky, but timelines in Star Trek are strangely durable. For instance, even though most of Zephram Cochrane's crew are killed by the Borg in "First Contact", the overall timeline is apparently unaffected.
     
  20. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe the very event of Edith getting hit by the truck and dying in the road started some big movement around pedestrian and vehicle safety, which in some unpredictable way ended up contributing to the war effort several years later.

    Kor