Wow...that was an inaccurate Yesterdays Enterprise recap...
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
Wow...that was an inaccurate Yesterdays Enterprise recap...
This is a somewhat dangerous thread. Do I open Pandora's Box?
Yes. Yes, I dare.
I don't much care for Discovery fans.
Yes. Yes, I dare.
I don't much care for Discovery fans.
Well, if it helps, I like TOS and the first movies too and I've been a fan for 30 years. There was no Discovery for most of that time. 90% of it, by the way.
And I'm not too keen on the Abrams Films or Rick Berman. The more hands-off Rick Berman was on a production, the better. The more Ira Steven Behr pushed back against Rick Berman on DS9, the better.
But, if all you see is "But you like Discovery!" and can't look passed anything else, well, then... Let's just say I'm bigger than judging people based on shows they like (even though some behaviors and beliefs annoy the Hell out of me). And you should be too.
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Why not? All of us like various iterations of the show, are apathetic to others, and dislike some and not always for the identical reasons.
If said DSC fan was otherwise a super fantastic person and the ideal life partner, but they otherwise like a spinoff of a TV show you don't care for... that's a total deal-breaker?!
I keep thinking these people have this image of Discovery Fans as 20-year-old kids who just discovered Star Trek or came in through the Abrams Films, don't know anything about it, and think Old Trek sucks. That's just not true.
Or are they thinking we think anyone who's Anti-Discovery is also anti-diversity? I don't automatically think anyone who hates Discovery is prejudiced, bigoted, or otherwise anti-diversity. But if someone acts like they are or all but says they are, then yes, I'm going to call them on it. Because that actually has nothing to do with Discovery by itself. But it has everything to do with someone's values when it comes to something a lot more serious than a TV show.
But if what I said above in the second paragraph doesn't apply to whoever's reading this, then I have no issue with you. We disagree about a TV show and that's as far as it goes. If I think someone is a jerk, it's not because they don't like Discovery. It's based on other behavior I've seen elsewhere and in general, over a period of time, where I see a pattern.
Or are they thinking we think anyone who's Anti-Discovery is also anti-diversity? I don't automatically think anyone who hates Discovery is prejudiced, bigoted, or otherwise anti-diversity. But if someone acts like they are or all but says they are, then yes, I'm going to call them on it. Because that actually has nothing to do with Discovery by itself. But it has everything to do with someone's values when it comes to something a lot more serious than a TV show.
But if what I said above in the second paragraph doesn't apply to whoever's reading this, then I have no issue with you. We disagree about a TV show and that's as far as it goes. If I think someone is a jerk, it's not because they don't like Discovery. It's based on other behavior I've seen elsewhere and in general, over a period of time, where I see a pattern.
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Exactly. It is a TV show. We are going to disagree over it how it is executed.
The only time I honestly struggle with people who are against Discovery is comments that start with "It's not real Star Trek." That's the same tired old tripe I heard with Abrams' films and it is rather tiresome. Not all Trek is for everyone but it is still Star Trek.
Other than that, no issues.
If you watch "Space Seed", TWOK, TSFS, and TVH, you have a Star Trek Quadrilogy with one continuous story.
That makes "Space Seed" kind of like an alternative, made-for-TV Star Trek I. If you don't want to watch TMP.
That makes "Space Seed" kind of like an alternative, made-for-TV Star Trek I. If you don't want to watch TMP.
TMP was rushed ,and it feels it. The Director's cut does improve the story.
I usually don't.
Have you seen the director's cut? If you have, moot point. If you have not, it does improve it.
Unless the director's cut is about 40 minutes shorter, and all the remaining dialogue is completely rewritten...no thanks.
^ This. A slightly re-cut version of a bad movie, is still a bad movie, if it still contains the same dialogue and story.Unless the director's cut is about 40 minutes shorter, and all the remaining dialogue is completely rewritten...no thanks.
With other bad/medicore movies where people claimed that the director's cut is "so much better" I often could tell that there's an improvement, but it still didn't magically turn it into a "good" movie to me.
And in case anybody tries to make me watch any version TMP again....I have a machete!
Of all the movies in the franchise, I think TMP is the one that feels the most like you can tell what era it was made. And I'm not talking about the uniforms.
I'm talking about the 10 year gap between the end of STAR TREK and TMP. Except for the short lived animated series, there was no new STAR TREK for a decade. And it was only Kirk and his crew. There wasn't hundreds of episodes and multiple shows to rewatch. Nor dvds, tapes, etc. The fans were a slave to whatever the rerun programming schedule at their local station was going to be to get their STAR TREK fix.
I was born barely 5 months before this movie was released. When I watch this movie, I put myself in the shoes of the fans of that era... people hungry for new STAR TREK. The film works much better when viewed with that lens.
When ENTERPRISE ended, I felt like I would actually experience what those TOS fans experienced back then... no new STAR TREK for who knows how long. A decade? Two? Longer? I had the benefit of over 700 episodes to rewatch, any at my convenience, so I would not feel quite as badly the effects of the lack of new ST. But I really did miss STAR TREK.
Now, I was thrilled when I heard we would get new ST by Abrams... until I read more and more about it. My final straw was seeing a picture of the new Enterprise. I was apalled. She is NOT a hot rod. She is a sleek, beautiful starship of exploration. I am not ashamed to admit I never gave the movie a look, and was quite vocal in my distaste for it. Same with INTO DARKNESS. I never watched either until BEYOND was about to be released, which was close to the 50th anniversary. I intended to watch that, out of loyalty to STAR TREK... but the completionist in me would not allow to just see that. So I watched both Abrams movies.
I am not a fan of either, and honestly, BEYOND is by far the best of the three. But I DO give a lot of credit to the first one for one thing... it created a new interest for a new generation of fans. And that led to us getting more new STAR TREK on tv. And while there are elements of the current era I am not a fan of, I am very happy to have what made me a science fiction fan back on tv. (And there IS a lot about the current shows I do love, so this is not a love/hate thing.)
So while TMP is not a perfect film by any means, it is a great film for a STAR TREK fan who has missed their show for a long time. And I think that was the main goal of the movie. If that were the case, TMP might very well be the one movie in the whole franchise, with the possible exception of the Abrams one, that actually achieved exactly what it set out to do.
I'm talking about the 10 year gap between the end of STAR TREK and TMP. Except for the short lived animated series, there was no new STAR TREK for a decade. And it was only Kirk and his crew. There wasn't hundreds of episodes and multiple shows to rewatch. Nor dvds, tapes, etc. The fans were a slave to whatever the rerun programming schedule at their local station was going to be to get their STAR TREK fix.
I was born barely 5 months before this movie was released. When I watch this movie, I put myself in the shoes of the fans of that era... people hungry for new STAR TREK. The film works much better when viewed with that lens.
When ENTERPRISE ended, I felt like I would actually experience what those TOS fans experienced back then... no new STAR TREK for who knows how long. A decade? Two? Longer? I had the benefit of over 700 episodes to rewatch, any at my convenience, so I would not feel quite as badly the effects of the lack of new ST. But I really did miss STAR TREK.
Now, I was thrilled when I heard we would get new ST by Abrams... until I read more and more about it. My final straw was seeing a picture of the new Enterprise. I was apalled. She is NOT a hot rod. She is a sleek, beautiful starship of exploration. I am not ashamed to admit I never gave the movie a look, and was quite vocal in my distaste for it. Same with INTO DARKNESS. I never watched either until BEYOND was about to be released, which was close to the 50th anniversary. I intended to watch that, out of loyalty to STAR TREK... but the completionist in me would not allow to just see that. So I watched both Abrams movies.
I am not a fan of either, and honestly, BEYOND is by far the best of the three. But I DO give a lot of credit to the first one for one thing... it created a new interest for a new generation of fans. And that led to us getting more new STAR TREK on tv. And while there are elements of the current era I am not a fan of, I am very happy to have what made me a science fiction fan back on tv. (And there IS a lot about the current shows I do love, so this is not a love/hate thing.)
So while TMP is not a perfect film by any means, it is a great film for a STAR TREK fan who has missed their show for a long time. And I think that was the main goal of the movie. If that were the case, TMP might very well be the one movie in the whole franchise, with the possible exception of the Abrams one, that actually achieved exactly what it set out to do.
TMP was absolutely successful in what it sent out to do as it gave GR another shot at a Trek TV show and we got TNG, one of the larger and more successful installments of the franchise. Abrams' accomplished a similar feat, to open Star Trek up to a much wider audience and I have gotten to see that first hand, with my wife (a non SF fan at all) and my dad (a pure TOS fan) enjoying this film together. As well as the fact that I prefer Abrams' film over many other installments of Trek largely because it has themes that carry great weight to me.
Funny enough, as a side note, I was not a fan of the casting decisions as all when first announced and almost didn't watch the film in theaters. It was seeing the ship design and being intrigued as to the differences of this vs. TOS that drew me in. I'm glad I did.
As for TMP, it will eventually get a rewatch from me. But, I'm not a fan who has to have Star Trek in the way that people might have experienced back after TOS and before TMP. There is no drive, no need, like that. So, I can appreciate it as a beautiful work but it isn't what drew me to Trek in the first place.
The TMP "director's cut" is substantially inferior to the theatrical cut.
TMP is the imperfect masterpiece of Star Trek. It might have been a great film, but it would have required at least one more rewrite before shooting, and even then greatness would not have been guaranteed. Once the release date got locked in, it was only going to be so good.
Still, it's my favorite of the films. I see it as the closest that Star Trek has become to being rendered as hard science fiction. As such, that sets it apart.
TMP is the imperfect masterpiece of Star Trek. It might have been a great film, but it would have required at least one more rewrite before shooting, and even then greatness would not have been guaranteed. Once the release date got locked in, it was only going to be so good.
Still, it's my favorite of the films. I see it as the closest that Star Trek has become to being rendered as hard science fiction. As such, that sets it apart.
I think Spock's arc is the more interesting one, and the more I learn about Spock's life the more weight that takes on so I that is something to look forward to.
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