What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Ray Hardgrit]

This is what people want Star Trek to be...

I love it when writers are science nerds enough for that to actually be a plausible explanation.

No seriously, it really helps my immersion when I get the feeling that the people coming up with the stories understand the things they're writing about far better than I do, and it can all make sense if you think about it for a moment.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, and Should - but that opens the door to why they don't revive any dead or injured crewman in the same way, and why entire armies of super soldiers, clones, or androids can not be created this way..... Crewman should have literal daily pattern backups as part of their daily safety and health routines. lol. Not to mention the fountain of youth, just save yearly genetic material in some type of suspended animation, and you can go back to that age any time u want!

Pretty much, this. The transporter helped deage Pulaski, as well as has created numerous duplicates over the years, and other such functions. How there isn't an anti-aging algorithim programmed in to it, as well as rematerilizing the dead is beyond me.

 

[Phoenix219]

The Satarrans from Conundrum were less advanced when it came to weapons technology yet more advanced (apparently) when it came to memory manipulation (both when it came to lifeforms and computers). The solanogen-based life forms came from a very different environment. Not everything that is easy for one civ is easy for the others as well, even when they seem of general comparable technological and scientific development.

As for the Federation, I'm not sure they know enough of data's positronic brain to erase memories without causing other damage- they can't duplicate it either, after all.

I've always wondered, in cases like Measure of a Man, where they really need to figure something out or want to experiment on Data, and want to treat him like property..... why don't they just do that to Lore?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I've always wondered, in cases like Measure of a Man, where they really need to figure something out or want to experiment on Data, and want to treat him like property..... why don't they just do that to Lore?

I think they did, once they finally got their hands on him after Descent.

 

[Phoenix219]

There's a thread on "scary" Trek moments, and I didn't think about it until we got into this about the transporter, but arguably one of the most chilling, disturbing and haunting moments in all of Star Trek involves the transporter in The Motion Picture and the "malfunction" that occurs.

The fact we don't see what Cronenberg-ish mess materialized on the pad back at Starfleet Command makes it even scarier, just that ungodly screaming wail and that it's described as not living long .. "fortunately."

Your imagination fills in the blanks and makes it so much worse.

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the novelization didn't help....

Pretty much, this. The transporter helped deage Pulaski, as well as has created numerous duplicates over the years, and other such functions. How there isn't an anti-aging algorithim programmed in to it, as well as rematerilizing the dead is beyond me.

Which is all things that could have been explored in the 32nd century, to be honest. All of the societal changes, philosophical debates that have arisen from just this type of thing... hmm.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

If those times from the episodes are to be believed, it would indicate that the Delta Quadrant has a lot of "subspace drag", the Gamma Quadrant a lot less and the Alpha/Beta Quadrant somewhere in the middle!

It could also be the reason why the Borg were motivated to develop transwarp conduits - it just takes too long to get anywhere, otherwise!

I don't think it's "SubSpace Drag".

They just get side tracked by alot of "Side Missions" and needing to be prudent to not prematurely wear out technoology that would be hard or near impossible to replace.

 

[Commander Troi]

"subspace drag"

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yes, and Should - but that opens the door to why they don't revive any dead or injured crewman in the same way, and why entire armies of super soldiers, clones, or androids can not be created this way..... Crewman should have literal daily pattern backups as part of their daily safety and health routines. lol. Not to mention the fountain of youth, just save yearly genetic material in some type of suspended animation, and you can go back to that age any time u want!

With that Flower, you would require two people to get 1 person.

That's not a good trade no matter how you splice it.

And Transporters can't save living material into the Transporter Buffer forever, much less duplicate it.

It can move, split, & re-Assemble.

It CAN'T Copy under normal usage.

It requires a VERY Extraordinary circumstances to create a duplicate.

Here's the incident with Thomas Riker:

The incident occurred on Nervala IV, while the USS Potemkin was conducting an evacuation of a science outpost on the planet. At the time, William T. Riker was serving as a lieutenant in Starfleet and was part of an away team. An unusual distortion field meant the Potemkin had difficulty beaming him up. A second confinement beam was initiated to overcome these difficulties, with the intent of reintegrating the two beams in the transporter buffer. This was unnecessary, as only one beam was successful at transporting Riker; the modulation of the distortion caused the second beam to be reflected back down to the surface, materializing the two Rikers, one on the ship, and one on the planet's surface.

These kind of circumstances don't happen very often.

 

[cooleddie74]

Scotty's pattern remained intact inside a transporter buffer for 75 years only because he had placed the buffer into a recurring loop that kept cycling his pattern as well as that of Jenolen crew member Franklin over the years. Scotty survived the 75 years in one piece but Franklin didn't, showing that even Scotty's vaunted engineering and transporter skills were only partly successful.

 

[Phoenix219]

With that Flower, you would require two people to get 1 person.

That's not a good trade no matter how you splice it.

And Transporters can't save living material into the Transporter Buffer forever, much less duplicate it.

It can move, split, & re-Assemble.

It can't Copy.

so with the right ratios and percentages of source material, it should be able to re-Assemble anything at any time based on the original pattern. just needs the right amounts of various elements and molecules to put into the pattern / outline.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Scotty's pattern remained intact inside a transporter buffer for 75 years only because he had placed the buffer into a recurring loop that kept cycling his pattern as well as that of Jenolen crew member Franklin over the years. Scotty survived the 75 years in one piece but Franklin didn't, showing that even Scotty's vaunted engineering and transporter skills were only partly successful.

With a 50% success rate, would you want to gamble on staying alive in the Transporter Buffer if you didn't have to?

so with the right ratios and percentages of source material, it should be able to re-Assemble anything at any time based on the original pattern. just needs the right amounts of various elements and molecules to put into the pattern / outline.

Remember the Repair Station, they tried to fake a dead body of "Travis MayWeather"

For all the miracles of Replicator tech, it can't create a single living cell, much less any more complicated living biorganic organsim.

If the object isn't a living organism, it can be duplicated to perfection.

That episode was to show that Replicator Technology isn't all powerful, there are limits.

You can't replicate living organic beings, even the simplest single cell life form can't be replicated.

That was the entire point of that scene.

 

[fireproof78]

With a 50% success rate, would you want to gamble on staying alive in the Transporter Buffer if you didn't have to?

I'm sure with the proper application of knowledge and experimentation the rate could increase.

Regardless, the transporter offers a lot more of get out death free cards that can be used.

 

[Phoenix219]

With a 50% success rate, would you want to gamble on staying alive in the Transporter Buffer if you didn't have to?


Remember the Repair Station, they tried to fake a dead body of "Travis MayWeather"

For all the miracles of Replicator tech, it can't create a single living cell, much less any more comlicating living biorganic organsim.

If the object isn't a living organism, it can be duplicated to perfection.

That episode was to show that Replicator Technology isn't all powerful, there are limits.

You can't replicate living organic beings, even the simplest single cell life form can't be replicated.

That was the entire point of that scene.

But it can, or we woudln't have Tom Riker, or dual Kirks.

Honestly, if you can't "replicate" organics, then I don't think the transporters OR replicators could even exist.

To me, thats an oxymoron.




I have actually not seen the entirety of ENT, so I don't know the reference.


Replicator technoloigy on ENT has nothing to do with the 23rd, 24th or 32nd centuries.

 

[cooleddie74]

The only replicators we see in ENT are on the alien repair station in "Dead Stop," so human and allied species contacts with the technology are very limited in the 22nd century.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm sure with the proper application of knowledge and experimentation the rate could increase.

Regardless, the transporter offers a lot more of get out death free cards that can be used.

In the short term, sure.

I'm talking about Transporter Buffer Stasis for < 1 year.

What this would REALLY help is with Medical Triage during a crisis.

Freeze people in Replicator Stasis, let the Doctors & EMH's figure things out on a case by case basis.


But for Long Term like Scotty where you can survive 75 years in stasis?

That's going to take ALOT more R&D to make sure all the equipment stays reliable for that damn long.

But it can, or we woudln't have Tom Riker, or dual Kirks.

Honestly, if you can't "replicate" organics, then I don't think the transporters OR replicators could even exist.

To me, thats an oxymoron.

You can't replicate w/o outside special circumstances as shown with Riker, the normal day to day operation of the machine doesn't have the capabilities to duplicate.

Otherwise, we'd be swimming in clones.

With the "Dual Kirk's".

On stardate 1672.1, in 2266, a strange ore altered the function of the transporter, causing a transporter accident in which Captain James T. Kirk was split into two separate entities. One man embodied all of Kirk's so-called "positive" qualities and the other embodied all of his "evil" qualities.

It was some time before the mishap was discovered, and the malignant version of Kirk roamed the ship, stealing brandy, assaulting crewmen, and even attempting to rape Yeoman Janice Rand. When he was cornered and finally captured in the engine room, the transporter was further damaged by an errant phaser shot he fired. Scott and Spock isolated and repaired the damage.

Their repairs were confirmed when a test animal, which had previously been split in a similar manner to Kirk, was sent through the transporter in an attempt to reintegrate the two creatures. Upon reintegrating, it rematerialized dead, but McCoy speculated that this was the result of the animal not understanding what was happening to it and dying of fright, whereas the sentient and rational Kirk would be able to understand what was being done to him and thus be able to cope with it.

Though he was crippled with indecision, Kirk was able to make the trip (albeit barely), and his two halves were reintegrated once again. (TOS: "The Enemy Within")

It split Kirk into a Good/Evil version and he did "Horrible Things" when his "Evil" version ran about.

That also required a strange ore that's probably on the "Ban List" for Transporters now due to how dangerous it is.

I have actually not seen the entirety of ENT, so I don't know the reference.

You missed out on a good time.

Replicator technoloigy on ENT has nothing to do with the 23rd, 24th or 32nd centuries.

Replicator Technology is all fundamentally the same, regardless of the centuries.
The Fundamental Principles behind their operation should be more or less identical.

The issue is replication speed, fidelity, energy efficiency when in use, & what materials can get replicated & what limitations are there.

 

[fireproof78]

In the short term, sure.

I'm talking about Transporter Buffer Stasis for < 1 year.

What this would REALLY help is with Medical Triage during a crisis.

Freeze people in Replicator Stasis, let the Doctors & EMH's figure things out on a case by case basis.


But for Long Term like Scotty where you can survive 75 years in stasis?

That's going to take ALOT more R&D to make sure all the equipment stays reliable for that damn long.

Sure, but you have the combined power of multiple worlds, scientists and researchers. I'm sure that they can solve this problem, especially if they just deage themselves too.

Tongue is partially in cheek here, but the transporter sets up a lot more questions than it answers, and solves a lot of problems that are complained about in newer Trek, like curing death. No, Star Trek had that way, way, back, and it was ignored.

It split Kirk into a Good/Evil version and he did "Horrible Things" when his "Evil" version ran about.

Yes, but they were still full bodies. There was still two masses of Kirk that beamed on to the pad. Where did the material for the second body come from? More than that, it replicate him as a living person, so some functionality of the transporter was able to either duplicate living matter, or create another body from nothing!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Sure, but you have the combined power of multiple worlds, scientists and researchers. I'm sure that they can solve this problem, especially if they just deage themselves too.

The De-Aging effect came from the Enterprise-D's Shuttle encountering a Spatial Anomaly that's called a "Molecular Reversion Field"

A molecular reversion field was a spatial anomaly that could interfere with transporter patterns and the molecular structures of objects passing through it.

In 2369, the shuttlecraft Fermi was trapped in and destroyed by such a field. Traveling aboard the shuttle were Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Ensign Ro Laren, Keiko O'Brien, and Guinan. As the shuttle began to break up, the USS Enterprise-D attempted to beam them off the shuttle. The molecular reversion field obscured portions of their patterns, in particular the rybo-viroxic-nucleic structure of their DNA, and the transporter re-materialized all four without it. (TNG: "Rascals")

You really want to create the "Fountain Transporter of Youth", don't you?

Tongue is partially in cheek here, but the transporter sets up a lot more questions than it answers, and solves a lot of problems that are complained about in newer Trek, like curing death. No, Star Trek had that way, way, back, and it was ignored.

Seven's Nanoprobes can cure death as well, I'm surprised we don't see more of that used in a regular basis in the medical field.
She claims that it can resurrect drones up to 72 Hours Post Death.
That is a HUGE game changing life-saving tool, no matter how you look at it.

Yes, but they were still full bodies. There was still two masses of Kirk that beamed on to the pad. Where did the material for the second body come from? More than that, it replicate him as a living person, so some functionality of the transporter was able to either duplicate living matter, or create another body from nothing!

It still required that "Strange Ore" for that to happen. So that might be the key, whatever mineral formulation that "Strange Ore" had, it was very powerful.

Most of the time, regular Ore doesn't have that effect with Transporters.

 

[fireproof78]

really want to create the "Fountain Transporter of Youth", don't you?

No, I don't want to. But I won't ignore the implications of technology as presented on screen. If it's fine before why ignore it?

Seven's Nanoprobes can cure death as well, I'm surprised we don't see more of that used in a regular basis in the medical field.
She claims that it can resurrect drones up to 72 Hours Post Death.
That is a HUGE game changing life-saving tool, no matter how you look at it.

Another great example.

 

[Citiprime]

In the short term, sure.

I'm talking about Transporter Buffer Stasis for < 1 year.

What this would REALLY help is with Medical Triage during a crisis.

Freeze people in Replicator Stasis, let the Doctors & EMH's figure things out on a case by case basis.

But for Long Term like Scotty where you can survive 75 years in stasis?

That's going to take ALOT more R&D to make sure all the equipment stays reliable for that damn long.

In DS9's "Rocks and Shoals," Sisko offers to put the Jem'Hadar in "medical stasis" which didn't exactly imply "freezing" them. So I wonder if by the 24th century there's a way to chemically induce a coma-like stasis that would in-theory keep a person's metabolism at near nil and cells from aging?

One of the sites like Gizmodo or Popular Mechanics had a story some years back about a published scientific paper that theorized a way to get around the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (i.e., one of the biggest technical objections to the transporter ever existing as technology) which basically says you can't precisely map all of the variables of particles, which you'd have to do in order to transport an object or person and end up with what you start out with.

But basically it theorized using quantum computing and involved using qubits (quantum computing bits of information that can exist in a state of superposition) to "trap" one variable while measuring others.

However, the scheme had some of the same issues that Star Trek's transporter has, especially the pattern buffer. The information gained from the qubits will "degrade" over time and quantum errors would creep into it the longer the qubits tried to keep a "lock" on what was being measured.

No, I don't want to. But I won't ignore the implications of technology as presented on screen. If it's fine before why ignore it?

I've always imagined/wondered whether some of the "cures" and fixes we see are like other things speculated about, where 2 weeks down the road when the Enterprise leaves we don't see long-term effects. For all we know, there's unforeseen consequences and long-term implications that requires treatments, therapies, and changes in lifestyle in order for it to be sustainable.

 

[Shawnster]

Even given the figures in VOY: "Caretaker" Voyager isn't going "as FAST AS IT CAN". If it's over 70,000 lightyears from Federation space and it's going to take it 75 years to get home then it's barely averaging 1000c – around warp 7.9. Which is pretty respectable average speed for a starship to be maintaining over long periods of time, but Voyager is capable of certainly three and possibly five times that, at least in sprints.

No vehicle, be it car, boat, or starship, is capable of maintaining maximum velocity at all times. Warp 7.5 is pretty respectable, in my opinion, for Voyager with a top speed of 9.975. I'm surprised it was that high an average with all the backtracking and side missions Voyager undertook in addition to scrounging for food and supplies.