What are the Prophets?

[DS9 Gal AZ]

What do you think? I think they are many options.

Note: When I say "the ultimate evolution of the Bajoran people" I mean that eventually the Bajorans are going to evolve to the point they are noncorporeal and outside of temporal existence. Since they exist outside of time, this explains why they can communicate and take an interest in their 'past' selves in the 'present.' This also explains them constantly saying they're of Bajor.

Oh, and Prophets and Pah-wraiths, same thing. Or at least, same species.

 

[flemm]

Transfigured Bajorans. At least that is the most satisfying theory imo. So I voted for the second option.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ I've always liked that idea, too. I don't know if I can offer any actual evidence beyond the vague sense that it fits (they are "of Bajor" etc, which could have many other meanings), but I like to think they are indeed Bajoran.

Of course, I'm a fan of the novel continuity, which suggested that Bajor was only one of several worlds the wormhole aliens watched. So maybe Bajor is one of several they descended from.

I also like to wonder if the prophet/pah-wraith conflict originated in...a prophet-worship/pah-wraith worship conflict. Different religious philosophies ending up as different "political" movements among the wormhole aliens that provoke the very division into "calm, somewhat detached but curious" wormholees vs "angry, firey, aggressive" ones that the old Bajorans used to generate a religious schism. An odd cycle. How else could a realm with no time have a history?

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Yeah, I'm going with the transfigured/evolved Bajorans idea myself.

 

[Cepstrum]

I voted for the noncorpeal aliens, but there's one potential hiccup: Sisko became one, too. But we could chalk that up to either his prophet mother and/or the prophets turning him into one of them because of his successful battle against the pagh-wraiths.

 

[stavrosg]

What do you think? I think they are many options.

Note: When I say "the ultimate evolution of the Bajoran people" I mean that eventually the Bajorans are going to evolve to the point they are noncorporeal and outside of temporal existence. Since they exist outside of time, this explains why they can communicate and take an interest in their 'past' selves in the 'present.' This also explains them constantly saying they're of Bajor.

Oh, and Prophets and Pah-wraiths, same thing. Or at least, same species.

I haven't touched the novels - yet - but this explanation does make the most sense; After they , or some of the Bajorans at least, ascended into non-corporeal, timeless beings they could interfere with their past, thus ensuring their own existence as non-corporeal. (Do i read "predestination paradox" here?)

 

[Photon]

Off-shoot of the Talosians, there I said it.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

What's this super-evolved Bajorans stuff? I've seen every episode and never got a hint of that. Either they're gods or they're aliens. Based on how the Star Trek universe works, I'd say they're aliens.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Off-shoot of the Talosians, there I said it.

Refresh my memory, who are the Talosians?

Also, I'd liked to know who voted for the "Dude, they're gods. It's not that complicated," option. Heh.

 

[flemm]

What's this super-evolved Bajorans stuff? I've seen every episode and never got a hint of that. Either they're gods or they're aliens. Based on how the Star Trek universe works, I'd say they're aliens.

It's fanwank, mostly, but the good kind: it makes a lot of sense given what we know about the Prophets, explains a few ambiguous details (especially the "We are of Bajor" refrain), and makes the Prophets more interesting rather than less so.

The idea doesn't contradict either the notion that they are "gods" or that they are "wormhole aliens," since that is often presented as a subjective judgement on DS9, and since either term could potentially be used to describe transfigured Bajorans.

It's worth noting that RHW agreed that this was the most plausible theory as to the identity of the Prophets in some discussion thread or other at some point, though he also noted that he preferred that their identity was allowed to remain a mystery.

 

[Rett Mikhal]

How come Deus Ex Machina isn't an option?

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

How come Deus Ex Machina isn't an option?

Hmm, good point. Oh well, just select "Other (please explain)."

 

[flemm]

How come Deus Ex Machina isn't an option?

Because the Prophets are characters in the DS9 story from the beginning, and therefore don't function like a deus ex machina. A "deus in machina" might be more appropriate

 

[Photon]

talosians; big headed dudes in The Cage and Menagerie. Super cerebral. telepathic

 

[DevilEyes]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of some corporeal beings evolving into non-corporeal rather stupid? Evolutionary changes happen as an adaptation to the environment. What possible environment conditions would cause this kind of 'evolution', and why wouldn't they cause the same for the neighboring Alpha Quadrant species?

 

[Cepstrum]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of some corporeal beings evolving into non-corporeal rather stupid? Evolutionary changes happen as an adaptation to the environment. What possible environment conditions would cause this kind of 'evolution', and why wouldn't they cause the same for the neighboring Alpha Quadrant species?

^^^

you're right. Evolutionary Theory, whether you believe it or not, does not work that way. There used to be other theories that taught qualities gained by a living organism count as evolution and could be passed down to its descendants.

I'm no a biologist (engineer), but as I understand Evolutionary Theory, it's simply random genetic mutations that occur in an organism that, if it gives it a better chance to survive/out-compete its fellows, will survive and be passed down, eventually leading to it becoming a dominant trait as it provides an advantage vis-á-vis the non-mutated guys.

And it's not always that predictable to lead to super-beings. Way back, we might have predicted that the next step in evolution would be bigger, stronger, faster dinosaurs. Instead they died out and instead we got not physically imposing dominant creatures but ones with bigger brains. At the time an observer wouldn't have guessed that outcome. So who knows what a next step would be? Whatever it is, it will probably be something unexpected, and certainly won't be anytime soon.

At least, that's according to Evolutionary Theory.

Perhaps there's a different mechanism responsible for turning people into noncorporeal/super beings/demigods/angels/etc. If so, we should call it something other than Evolution. Perhaps either a supernatural cause as in religious systems or something else entirely.

But I agree that, for example, Sisko did not "evolve" into a prophet. He was somehow turned into one.

I like how flemm referred to them as "transfigured" Bajorans. That nomenclature makes more sense.



And I apologize to those who used the term "evolution". I didn't mean to insult or start an argument. I'm sure you know what you really meant. Sorry for coming across a little harsh. I didn't mean to. I don't mean to be rude!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Well, to be be Cepstrum, I'm the one that put the "e-word" in the poll. I guess I should have used "transfigured" instead, hee.

 

[indolover]

Bajorans in the future may have developed technology that allowed them to transcend. For all we know, the Q Continuum could have been corporeal, and discovered technology that made them near Gods.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Didn't the "Bajorans evolving into the Prophets" concept come from a Trek blog/review site?

I think in it, the author was giving his theory about where the Prophets came from.

Or maybe he got it from somewhere else himself.

DevilEyes wrote:
Am I the only one who finds the idea of some corporeal beings evolving into non-corporeal rather stupid? Evolutionary changes happen as an adaptation to the environment. What possible environment conditions would cause this kind of 'evolution', and why wouldn't they cause the same for the neighboring Alpha Quadrant species?

Trek has done that a lot.

The idea does sound cool though. Especially if you're a materialist.

Maybe it's a solution for the atheist/materialist attitude of the Trek universe, maybe even some writers themselves?

If you have no sense of spirituality, and think this is all there is, the idea of evolving into a higher life form gives a little more hope with a scientific frame to it.

 

[neozeks]

Didn't the "Bajorans evolving into the Prophets" concept come from a Trek blog/review site

Maybe you're refering to this? http://siskoid.blogspot.com/2009/09/on-nature-of-prophets.html (it's an awesome read, BTW)

I voted for that one too, because I think it's definitely the most interesting one in a sci-fi sense. And it gives a reasonable explanation as to why the Prophets care to meddle into Bajor's affairs in the first place.