This is why we need Editing functions enabled for Newbies; letting typos like those linger makes us look foolish.
Wesley Crusher... am I the only one not annoyed by him?
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
- Start date
Ha! I fully understand, I am pretty new here myself (but I can edit, thank goodness!) and I thought maybe I was missing some kind of reference.
Oh, I can't wait either to be given that right, but by then I feel it's too little, too late. God[zilla] knows what sort of humiliation awaits me until I'm given those permissions when I blunder and leave more typos, and unable to correct them and just plain left to the (lack of) mercies to predatory trolls goosing me with "(typo X)? Really? So that's what we're doing now? (Typo X)?"
Wesley is hated largely because he stands out as one of the most blatant and horrible adult created self insertion kid characters. What made him worse is he was among the last of that type of character. The "boy genius" trope that "kids could see themselves in" was a common Hollywood falacy from the 50's through the 60's and 70's. By the early 80's the public had grown weary on the whole thing as the kids who had grown up with these twits were finally old enough to truly express an opinion on how stupid they were. Kids didn't want to be the boy genius. Kids imagined themselves as the strapping adult hero. Their self insertion character was Kirk and his ilk.
Unfortunately Gene was old school and rather set in his ways in some regards. So he mentally never got the memo on why Wesley was a bad thing.
By DS9 those in charge had gotten the memo. Jake was a kid being a kid. His role and purpose was not to be a strong or prominent character. Rather it was to be an element of Sisco. Something that informed Sisco, gave him structure and gave the audience another POV on the lead. It worked well. (Notice that there really are not any Jake solo centric episodes. He is more a figure for others to react against, excepting the Visitor. Where they swap out child Jake Cirrocumulus Lofton for elderly Jake Tony Todd.)
Unfortunately Gene was old school and rather set in his ways in some regards. So he mentally never got the memo on why Wesley was a bad thing.
By DS9 those in charge had gotten the memo. Jake was a kid being a kid. His role and purpose was not to be a strong or prominent character. Rather it was to be an element of Sisco. Something that informed Sisco, gave him structure and gave the audience another POV on the lead. It worked well. (Notice that there really are not any Jake solo centric episodes. He is more a figure for others to react against, excepting the Visitor. Where they swap out child Jake Cirrocumulus Lofton for elderly Jake Tony Todd.)
There are some good posts here. I enjoy reading others' opinions on the topic.
For me, he was always annoying to my limit. I used to steer clear of his episodes, but in recent years that's changed. He actually has a few episodes I like, and I've been finding his mother a great deal more annoying than him, beautiful as she is.
I saw a few other mentions, like Sisko being the Messiah, which is pretty darned annoying, Harry Kim, who can be pretty annoying but that bad, and Travis Mayweather, who I didn't mind, but unfortunately his role was almost entirely useless.
On a whole, I'd have to say my two most annoying characters are Dr crusher and the good Doctor *after* he discovered his personality.
For me, he was always annoying to my limit. I used to steer clear of his episodes, but in recent years that's changed. He actually has a few episodes I like, and I've been finding his mother a great deal more annoying than him, beautiful as she is.
I saw a few other mentions, like Sisko being the Messiah, which is pretty darned annoying, Harry Kim, who can be pretty annoying but that bad, and Travis Mayweather, who I didn't mind, but unfortunately his role was almost entirely useless.
On a whole, I'd have to say my two most annoying characters are Dr crusher and the good Doctor *after* he discovered his personality.
Yeah, I can't say that I didn't find him annoying since day one. After having seeing Will Weaton elsewhere quite a bit since then, and especially as himself, I think a lot of that has to do with the guy himself. I just don't find him likeable at all.
On seasons 3 and 4 when TNG really found its form, Wesley wasn't annoying.
I will admit that Wesley got better as he got older which brings me back to what I've always said about the character, he should have a Fresh faced Starfleet Academy graduate, an ensign who has never been in the real Starfleet, only book learning.
He could have been a little cocky top notch pilot, which would put him the pilot seat as often as he was. He could have been a top or the top graduate of Starfleet Academy and out to make Captain faster than any else in Starfleet history, then find out his mother is on the ship, a superior officer and CMO. A lot could have been done with their relationship over the series. Each one having to learn how to deal with the other as officers and as adults, Beverly having to learn to let go and treat him like the officer he is, Wesley learning that no matter how old he gets he will always be her little boy and that she will always worry about him. And of course Wesley learning that what he was taught at the Academy, is not always how a starship really works, the real world vs. the safety of school.
He could have been a little cocky top notch pilot, which would put him the pilot seat as often as he was. He could have been a top or the top graduate of Starfleet Academy and out to make Captain faster than any else in Starfleet history, then find out his mother is on the ship, a superior officer and CMO. A lot could have been done with their relationship over the series. Each one having to learn how to deal with the other as officers and as adults, Beverly having to learn to let go and treat him like the officer he is, Wesley learning that no matter how old he gets he will always be her little boy and that she will always worry about him. And of course Wesley learning that what he was taught at the Academy, is not always how a starship really works, the real world vs. the safety of school.
Well that's a fine attitude but the focus of "Journey's End" was much more that Wesley had lost interest in Starfleet before that, related to finding the work pointless and perhaps his superiors no longer loving him/giving him special treatment, and wanting to follow a different father figure/image/path rather than primarily being about opposition to the development.
I thought the episode felt really inconsistent with his prior developments and awkward that he considered Starfleet his parents' thing rather than his own but joined with the Traveler in part because he had appeared as his father (
).
I've wanted to answer this before, but I encountered a technical problem that prevented it. So ... better late than never, I suppose:
In realistic terms, I don't see how Rick could've elevated Wesley's relative importance to the series by having his "evolved" state allowing him to unduly influence TNG's greatest villain. Not without Sir Patrick Stewart AND Brent Spiner wanting his screen time reduced, in their favour. Wheaton Was liked on the series, but he was barely above Barclay in the food chain, especially after Roddenberry's passing. The show's 2 biggest stars might've felt challenged by his sudden co-star status - not to mention that it might threaten to broaden Gates' role a bit more, which - again - cuts into Patrick and Brent's screen time AND makes Wheaton's part seem even larger. Yes, I see egos preventing Rick from making Wesley's return to the show worthwhile. But the idea's an interesting one ...
Wesley's not the next step in evolution, so much as a mutation that could, conceivably, reoccur. Evolution is a word that STAR TREK misuses, often, implying that Humanity is pre-destined, as if fate is behind the steering wheel, making sure our species transcends itself dramatically, inexplicably and singularly towards an eventual Q-like plane of existence. How Wesley's "Traveler" abilities could benefit, or seriously threaten the Borg is an interesting question and if there were no constraints on the story-telling aspects of that, I'm not sure ... but I'm curious, all the same. Undoubtedly, Wes could affect the Borg to some extent but to what extent - did you have any ideas on that?
The concept of having crew members families on board was a good one. Seeing the Enterprise through the spectrum of teenage life is a wonderful concept and would have offered a whole new perspective on the show.
The problem was they never gave Wesley much of a private life. He was just a kid trying to fit in with the adults and that was interesting but they should have gone further with the teen angle. I realize it was more of an adult orientated show, but they could have done more with the kids and kept the shows maturity. It would have brought them a bigger audience in that demographic. I was a teen during it's run and many teens I knew liked the films but would not watch the show.
I can accept Wes being a super genius because it's science fiction. Wheaton was perfect for the role because he exuded innocence and geekiness, yet the girls wanted him! He was a hero to us all!
The problem was they never gave Wesley much of a private life. He was just a kid trying to fit in with the adults and that was interesting but they should have gone further with the teen angle. I realize it was more of an adult orientated show, but they could have done more with the kids and kept the shows maturity. It would have brought them a bigger audience in that demographic. I was a teen during it's run and many teens I knew liked the films but would not watch the show.
I can accept Wes being a super genius because it's science fiction. Wheaton was perfect for the role because he exuded innocence and geekiness, yet the girls wanted him! He was a hero to us all!
I think most of Wesley Crusher's problems come from season one, which was - to put it politely - a bit of a misfire in general, but it also had a difficult structural problem: What to do with Wesley in episodes where he's not got a story.
Like "The Battle" is all about Picard and his memories and his old command. The rest of the cast have jobs, and their dialogue can be about their jobs, but what the hell can job-less Wesley Crusher do? So his scenes essentially amount to: Wesley waltzes in, shows how smart he is, serving as a deus ex machina who moves the plot along by figuring things out.
You can literally remove all the Wesley scenes from the episode and not notice he was gone - I edited it myself once for kicks.
Season two, however, gave him a job as a CONN officer on the bridge. As risible as people may think of that, it did mean he could fade into the background as required (like in Best of Both Worlds.)
Like "The Battle" is all about Picard and his memories and his old command. The rest of the cast have jobs, and their dialogue can be about their jobs, but what the hell can job-less Wesley Crusher do? So his scenes essentially amount to: Wesley waltzes in, shows how smart he is, serving as a deus ex machina who moves the plot along by figuring things out.
You can literally remove all the Wesley scenes from the episode and not notice he was gone - I edited it myself once for kicks.
Season two, however, gave him a job as a CONN officer on the bridge. As risible as people may think of that, it did mean he could fade into the background as required (like in Best of Both Worlds.)
They should've brought Wesley back for the films. No harm in that. Or even DS9 where you could toughen up his characterisation and give him a spot somewhere in the Maquis drama.
I am indifferent to Wesley. don't like him but don't hate him either. I think the hate towards him was due to people seeing him as a mary sue, or being jealous (oh yes, some people are jealous of fictional characters), and the TNG time period being the time were people were fed up with the saturation of kid geniuses in fiction
I never hated either of them, but seeing them again now, I can see why others consider their constant piping annoying. Darth Binks lol
I have another theory why a small percentage of people could have hated him; it's my reason at least. As a closeted teen, pretty much the same age as Wil Wheaton, I had a crush on the actor. 
Internalized homophobia is damning and scary, and makes you hate things you really like.
Now, I can see why people would hate the character otherwise, but with the suspension of disbelief required for many of the characters, especially in the early seasons, I really don't have an issue with Wesley.
Internalized homophobia is damning and scary, and makes you hate things you really like.Now, I can see why people would hate the character otherwise, but with the suspension of disbelief required for many of the characters, especially in the early seasons, I really don't have an issue with Wesley.
I didn't like him growing up, but have grown more fond of him as time went by, to the point where now I don't mind him at all. Wil Wheaton is a pretty decent guy in real life as well, and it's sort of sad the amount of grief he's had to take over the years from douchebag fans.
